NEW MEMBER

[robbiefuchs]

New member who has interest in moving into a 201.  My flying partner and I are looking for one relatively close to KMHL to go take a look at and sit in to address stories of Mooney being uncomfortable.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Robbie and flying partner!

For reference...  https://www.airnav.com/airport/KMHL

If you make it easy enough, somebody might look up where you are...  

Best regards,

-a-

[RLCarter]

welcome aboard, if all possible fly it as well

[Bryan]

Not a big help but I am in central AR with a 231 and visit Branson / Springfield often. From my understanding, the 231 is just the Turbo version of the 201 but interior should be near the same with some upgrades (split, folding rear seats, and fully articulating pilot/copilot seats)

[Stephen]

I am back and for the between Hannibal, MO (KHAE) (Home) and Rogers, AR (KROG) (Work). I "think" my '69 "F" is similar dimensionally to a J/201 w/t the exception of the windshield slope. 

[Oldguy]

Robbie,

Welcome to the board.

11 hours ago, robbiefuchs said:

New member who has interest in moving into a 201.  My flying partner and I are looking for one relatively close to KMHL to go take a look at and sit in to address stories of Mooney being uncomfortable.

What stories of Mooney's being uncomfortable have you heard? Access and egress are not the simplest in the fleet, but once in the plane, you have ample leg room and head room. For the "height-challenged" there are pedal extensions available to move you back from the panel and yoke. For those of us 6" ++ (I am 6'5" and not even close to the tallest among us), we fit comfortably. 

The position in which you sit in a Mooney is more like that of a sports car (Corvette, MGB, etc.) than what I find in a Cessna or Piper (Silverado, F150). As many of us use our plane for long range travel, we often spend 3 or more hours in them with just standard fuel. Long range tanks on a 201/J can give you extreme range as one of our members has often demonstrated.

Throw some questions at us; we will do what we can to answer them until you can find a Mooney to check out in person.

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, Oldguy said:

Robbie,

Welcome to the board.

What stories of Mooney's being uncomfortable have you heard? Access and egress are not the simplest in the fleet, but once in the plane, you have ample leg room and head room. For the "height-challenged" there are pedal extensions available to move you back from the panel and yoke. For those of us 6" ++ (I am 6'5" and not even close to the tallest among us), we fit comfortably. 

The position in which you sit in a Mooney is more like that of a sports car (Corvette, MGB, etc.) than what I find in a Cessna or Piper (Silverado, F150). As many of us use our plane for long range travel, we often spend 3 or more hours in them with just standard fuel. Long range tanks on a 201/J can give you extreme range as one of our members has often demonstrated.

Throw some questions at us; we will do what we can to answer them until you can find a Mooney to check out in person.

+1  My wife and I are 5'6" or so, and our main problem is too much room--I have to crank the seat up all the way forward to reach the pedals, and when she slides all the way back she complains I'm so far away   She loves that she is able to stretch out compared to the Cherokee we used to fly.  My main complaint is that sitting all the way forward, I need stronger bifocals to see my tablet on the yoke because it is too close to my face.

Getting in and out is usually the issue, after a while you learn the sequence of twists, pulls and turns it takes to get in quickly, but you need to brief your passengers each time since they are unfamiliar with the process.

One thing I noticed flying safety pilot with an IR trainee in a Cessna, I don't use my lap for storage space because of the seating position.  She would keep all sorts of charts, clipboards and books in her lap.  I'll wear a kneeboard, but I don't keep anything else in my lap because the yoke is essentially in my lap.

[jwilcoxon78]

Plenty of room in the 201 for me and my family.  I'm 5'10", wife is 5'4".  We've had a carseat/carrier in the back for our infant son at the time.  Have also been able to fit his larger car seat in the baggage compartment.  Now we have a second son and I see no reason we won't all be able to travel together on week long trips. 

 

As other's have said, I've got to move the seat full forward to be comfortable at the controls. Leaves a fair amount of room for any PAX sitting in back.  Ingress and egress are the only oddities but no more or less than any other low wing aircraft. 

[robbiefuchs]

Thanks all!   What I have heard most about is seating position visibility over panel.  I have always had interest in the model as the efficiency that a Mooney covers the ground is amazing.

Random questions........estimate for 5 year annual expense (2500-3000?).....estimate for insurance for 400 hour pilot with instrument ticket but no retractable time?

[KLRDMD]

42 minutes ago, robbiefuchs said:

Random questions........estimate for 5 year annual expense (2500-3000?).....estimate for insurance for 400 hour pilot with instrument ticket but no retractable time?

The flat rate annual inspection fee for my 231 is $2,380 at my shop. Many people do upgrades during annual which may give you wildly different numbers. You need to separate out the fee for the actual annual inspection from other things done "while you're in there with everything opened up" and "we'll just wait until annual to do that" types of things.

Total annual expenses vary wildly too. Will the airplane be tied down or in a hangar ?  What part of the country ? What upgrades will be done (there are ALWAYS upgrades) ? Do you have one or more GPS/MFD databases to update monthly ? Will you do some of your own maintenance (oil changes, etc) or have a shop do all the maintenance ? If a shop, does it have "Jet" in the name 

Insurance will depend a lot on hull value. Are you looking at a $60k airplane or a $150k airplane ?

I'll put in a plug for my fantastic broker. Give her a call or E-Mail and she'll let you know what you're looking at for numbers for insurance. If you have a representative tail # for an airplane similar to what you think you'll end up with she can get you a VERY accurate quote.

Wendy Wenk

Wenk Aviation Insurance, LLC

900 North Shore Drive, Suite 109, Lake Bluff, IL  60044

847.235.2491 phone │ 800.225.9365 toll free │ 847.235.2559 fax

wendy@wenkaviation.com

[robbiefuchs]

Thanks for input

[Hank]

Prices for annual vary wildly, too. My last few have run $850 + any parts needed. Mine starts week after next and will include new tire & Air Stop tube on the nose and new bearings on both mains. It's also owner assisted, all day for three days, and I buy lunch every day. All inspection panels are off before the A&P/IA gets there.

[Bob_Belville]

You are reasonably close to one of the best regarded Mooney Service Centers - Maxwell in Longview TX. I suspect that he gets about $2500 for an annual inspection... plus repairs and upgrades.

While Hank refers to annuals varying widely, it really is the maintenance that varies. Owners who defer repairs and upgrades until the plane is down for annual tend to think in terms of the total bill which might include many more dollars for repairs and upgrades than for the inspection itself. My IA publishes a flat rate for each model for the annual/100 hour inspections. 

I just renewed insurance - under $1000 for $100,000 hull. I have 3000 hours in make and model, I suppose twice that would be reasonable for the first year. and adjust for hull value.  

Hope that helps.

[mooneyflyfast]

21 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

+1  My wife and I are 5'6" or so, and our main problem is too much room--I have to crank the seat up all the way forward to reach the pedals, and when she slides all the way back she complains I'm so far away   She loves that she is able to stretch out compared to the Cherokee we used to fly.  My main complaint is that sitting all the way forward, I need stronger bifocals to see my tablet on the yoke because it is too close to my face.

Getting in and out is usually the issue, after a while you learn the sequence of twists, pulls and turns it takes to get in quickly, but you need to brief your passengers each time since they are unfamiliar with the process.

One thing I noticed flying safety pilot with an IR trainee in a Cessna, I don't use my lap for storage space because of the seating position.  She would keep all sorts of charts, clipboards and books in her lap.  I'll wear a kneeboard, but I don't keep anything else in my lap because the yoke is essentially in my lap.

You should get a set of 3 in. rudder extensions installed--completely solves the "too close to the panel" and " yoke in lap" problems.

My wife and I are usually the only occupants when we travel  She likes to ride in back  It's easier for her to get in and out and she has plenty of room back there.  I have the copilots sear and floor for my stuff.  

 

 

[Hank]

Rudder extensions will get the yoke out of your lap. Drawings are here somewhere, either Search or look in Downloads; I may have them saved somewhere, too.

For vision over the cowl, try cushions. I'm 5'11" and use a tapered gel cushion, my 5'3" wife uses 3 chair cushions. It really helps my landings! The seats in my C do not crank up and down. Even with the cushion, I'm comfortable in a high crown hat thanks to my Halos, plenty of headroom.

[KLRDMD]

2 minutes ago, Hank said:

My 5'3" wife uses 3 chair cushions. It really helps my landings! 

Trying to figure this one out . . .

[Hank]

Just now, KLRDMD said:

Trying to figure this one out . . .

Seat cushions from Wal-Mart, complete with little strings to tie onto the seat of a hardback chair. She stacks them in the right seat for height. Not sure if her toes still touch the floor though.

[KLRDMD]

9 minutes ago, Hank said:

 My 5'3" wife uses 3 chair cushions. It really helps my landings! 

 

5 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

Trying to figure this one out . . .

 

3 minutes ago, Hank said:

Seat cushions from Wal-Mart, complete with little strings to tie onto the seat of a hardback chair. She stacks them in the right seat for height. Not sure if her toes still touch the floor though.

I'm trying to figure out how your wife using cushions helps your landings.

[kris_adams]

My first year insurance IIRC was around $1900 through AOPA IIRC.  After passing 500 hours in type and 1000TT plus IR, my current premium is just over $1k for $90k coverage.  I probably should up the limit.

[KLRDMD]

Just now, Kris_Adams said:

My first year insurance IIRC was around $1900 through AOPA IIRC.  After passing 500 hours in type and 1000TT plus IR, my current premium is just over $1k for $90k coverage.  I probably should up the limit.

I assume this is with sub-limits ? 1MM/100k. Smooth coverage is always higher, if you qualify for it (but worth it in my opinion).

[MIm20c]

11 minutes ago, Hank said:

For vision over the cowl, try cushions. I'm 5'11" and use a tapered gel cushion, my 5'3" wife uses 3 chair cushions. It really helps my landings! The seats in my C do not crank up and down. Even with the cushion, I'm comfortable in a high crown hat thanks to my Halos, plenty of headroom.

Im in the process of having my seats redone and my plan is to go to the airport tomorrow with phone books and the seat framework to make sure enough foam is used.  At 5’8” I’d like a little more height over the dash but I don’t find a cushion necessary. 

[kris_adams]

4 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

I assume this is with sub-limits ? 1MM/100k. Smooth coverage is always higher, if you qualify for it (but worth it in my opinion).

I’ve upped the limits from what they would give me in year 1, but I probably need to up them even more.

[Bob_Belville]

14 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

Im in the process of having my seats redone and my plan is to go to the airport tomorrow with phone books and the seat framework to make sure enough foam is used.  At 5’8” I’d like a little more height over the dash but I don’t find a cushion necessary. 

I just had the trim shop who did my seats in leather 5 years ago replace the 3" foam with 5" higher density foam. He was able to stretch the leather enough to accommodate the thicker foam! The mod allows me to get rid of a loose cushion. (Did both seats, Nancy will love hers.)

[KLRDMD]

16 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

I assume this is with sub-limits ? 1MM/100k. Smooth coverage is always higher, if you qualify for it (but worth it in my opinion).

 

10 minutes ago, Kris_Adams said:

I’ve upped the limits from what they would give me in year 1, but I probably need to up them even more.

That sounds like you're talking hull value, basically a stated value of the airplane that the insurance company will pay in the event of a total loss. Within reason (and with proof if indicated) an insurance company will insure your airplane for any value.

I'm talking liability limits. The insurance company will pay out up to $1MM with a limit of $100k per seat. With one passenger, they will not be paid more than $100k for injuries, etc. Many people take this option since it is the cheapest, but $100k doesn't pay for a lot of injuries any more. You can also get different limits, $1MM/200k as an example. If you qualify, and low time pilots or low time in a make and model generally don't qualify, you may be able to buy a $1MM "smooth" policy. This does not have sublimits per seat. One passenger may be allowed up to the full $1MM in liability insurance if needed.

At renewal in 2017 I had the following options: 

Mooney M20K, $125k hull value. I'm a fairly high time pilot with a few ratings and certifications but I have a guy on my insurance that's a fairly new, fairly low time pilot.

$1MM/100K: $1,695

$1MM/200K: $1,825

$1MM smooth (no sublimits): $2,030

For about a dollar a day extra I can have smooth coverage so that's what I choose.

[Hank]

37 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

I'm trying to figure out how your wife using cushions helps your landings.

My seat cushion lets me see to land; if my wife can see the runway, she is less vocal during landings, which also helps!