Family pressures?

[gsxrpilot]

I'm gonna throw my vote in with @Hank for what it's worth. I bought my C with 300 hours... all of them 5 years before. I'd finished my PP and IFR but then move out of the country and didn't fly for almost 5 years. I came back and owned the C within 2 months.

Regarding your route... assuming clear weather I'd take off, climb for altitude, and go direct. I'd go with full tanks of gas and plan to cruise at 11,500 or 12,500. That way you've got lots of range if you have an engine issue and plenty of gas to divert/turn around/go back if the weather changes and doesn't look good. Full tanks in a Mooney will get you a long way and if the weather doesn't work out, you can likely go far enough to get to excellent weather.

[tony]

10 hours ago, NJMac said:

Here's the metars on the map from ForeFlight. It looked the exact same way on Friday when we would have came down. Is there something I'm missing that should cause me more fear?

It was an absolutely gorgeous weekend to fly an hour and a half flight.  I don't think you could have asked for better conditions!!  

[Skates97]

Similar to @Hank I was a newly minted PPL and rented a Cherokee from the school for a 300nm trip to Phoenix, they didn't have a problem with it. I had 59.6 total hours all in Cherokees when I bought my Mooney. Shortly after that I was flying to Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and Idaho. We flew over 150 hours in the first year and saw family more than ever before, making great memories along the way. The biggest factor I had to be aware of in all of the distance flying was weather planning and monitoring. (Summer afternoon flying in the mountain west requires vigilance, and flexibility in times and routes).

Can the OP take his wife and fly wherever he wants? Absolutely! Should he have to rack up a bunch of hours before doing so? Definitely not. My recommendation would be to set high personal minimums and do not compromise on them. As experience increases the minimums can be changed, but make the decision well ahead of time on any changes to personal minimums, do not let the current conditions dictate changes to minimums.

Throughout all of it try to be sensitive to the feelings of the in-laws. Don't let them dictate what you do, but saying "I know you are concerned, but I have planned well and we are going to fly anyway" is much better than "I know you don't like it but it's our life and we're going to live it how we want."

[Mooneymite]

This is the best thread since they closed down "Little Timmy"!

What can I say to help stir the pot?  

[NJMac]

1 hour ago, tony said:

It was an absolutely gorgeous weekend to fly an hour and a half flight.  I don't think you could have asked for better conditions!!  

It should have been a 7 hr drive from north atlanta to dayton. Still not back yet and were over 10 hrs. Been pissed off thinking how much driving sucks this whole time. Its just (2) 1.5 hr legs. I really dont get the concern.

I taught myself to drive stick in my first car at 14. I taught myself for my CDL. Then I taught most of the rest of my company their CDL. If there is someone who is going to figure it out, on the fly if necessary, ill put my name in the hat.

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Edited November 27, 2017 by NJMac

[NJMac]

Try to follow the logic:
We acquire knowledge through experience. We need knowledge before we can acquire wisdom.
Therefore we must possess experience in order to have wisdom. Cannot have wisdom without experience. 
Now let's apply the logic to flying:
Experience is acquired through hours in the left seat. 
Therefore hours do give you wisdom.
Elementary my dear Watson, elementary!

Was this supposed to be sarcastically sassy? If that's your contribution to the thread then please don't. I don't know why it has to go that direction

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[gsxrpilot]

5 minutes ago, NJMac said:

Was this supposed to be sarcastically sassy? If that's your contribution to the thread then please don't. I don't know why it has to go that direction

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There is a nice ignore user feature on this forum. Try it, you might like it.

[jetdriven]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

Following the logic of this thread, freshly minted A&P’s should do anything other than put air in tires and oil in engines because they don’t have the hours of experience to do much else.  Important stuff should be left until they hold an IA, which ironically requires more experience than putting air in tires and oil in engines.

Clarence

Legally I can perform and sign off the overhaul on a CF-6 jet engine, but would I tomorrow? No. After a few years at a jet shop, sure.  That’s the logic I’m following. And an A&P has to have 3 years experience to get the certificate, which is a lot more than 70 hours. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by jetdriven

[Mooneymite]

Whenever the subject of experience comes up, I think of the military and the tremendous responsibility it puts on very low time airmen.

In my own case, flying virtually all over the world doing ASW missions, leading a crew of 13 at 25 years old....I had no idea of all the stuff I didn't know, but the entire crew had an incredible will to get the missions done...and not die.

Trial by fire is good for us all.  As we get older we become fearful.  The problem is we thrust that self-fear onto others.

Go!  Get out there and get all the experience you can.  Just be careful.

[Danb]

In-laws, that's some dirty words, I'd not discuss flying with them re. taking the daughter along, that should not be your problem directly. Wifey needs to know she's married to you kinda divorced her parents in a sense. After you massage that your next 50 years may go pretty good, otherwise who knows. It'd be awesome for your bride to tell mom and dad you had a great trip while letting them know you love flying even if it's a fib. I flew into Virginia Tech today have lots or years, hours etc., having fun fighting the winds, hills and turbulence, I pondered what heck am I doing here. Everything went well, my nephew I dropped off at V T was never in a small plane loved it, he thought it was a nice flight( dummy). Point is do great preflight planning start a couple days in advance, go over it a few times, check the charts, look at google earth to see the terrain then plan some more once it fits into your comfort zone all the while getting everything in your favor.Go relax you will have a great flight to look back on.

If you can't check all your boxes go another day.

Fly safe enjoy the joys of flight.

[PTK]

10 hours ago, NJMac said:

Was this supposed to be sarcastically sassy? If that's your contribution to the thread then please don't. I don't know why it has to go that direction

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Yes that’s my contribution to this thread and no it's not sarcastic.

What’s yours? Complain that your in laws don’t consent for you, a pilot of 70 hours, to fly their daughter over mountains? Their concerns are justified. I don’t blame them and you shouldn’t either. They are not telling you to give up flying. Instead of complaining show maturity by accepting it and work towards building your time and experience. 

 

[Hank]

5 hours ago, PTK said:

Try to follow the logic:

We acquire knowledge through experience. We need knowledge before we can acquire wisdom.

Therefore we must possess experience in order to have wisdom. Cannot have wisdom without experience. 

Now let's apply the logic to flying:

Experience is acquired through hours in the left seat. 

Therefore hours do give you wisdom.

Elementary my dear Watson, elementary!

Peter, try this:  not all old people / experienced pilots are wise. Wisdom and knowledge come from experience, sometimes; they come from study and talking to wise people, sometimes. The best way is to combine both, but not everyone can. Every class has someone at the bottom. Some people learn little and develop little wisdom despite much experience. 

Wisdom is not automatic with age or experience, and it is also not proportional to experience. The ancient Greek sages earned tge3ir reputations early and maintained them for the rest of their lives, so that we still know and study them today.

All 100 hour pilots are not equally clueless; all 10,000 hour pilots are not Aviation sages. Flying the same hour 1000 times will teach a pilot very little; all experience is not equal. Buzzing the pattern and cruising the practice area day after day teaches little about weather patterns and how they change during a 500nm XC, and nothing about adapting plans after departure due to those changes.

To learn, you gotta go places. For most of us, "going places" alone for a couple of years isn't going to happen, and is a crazy suggestion.

[Ned Gravel]

4 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

Whenever the subject of experience comes up, I think of the military and the tremendous responsibility it puts on very low time airmen.

In my own case, flying virtually all over the world doing ASW missions, leading a crew of 13 at 25 years old....I had no idea of all the stuff I didn't know, but the entire crew had an incredible will to get the missions done...and not die.

Trial by fire is good for us all.  As we get older we become fearful.  The problem is we thrust that self-fear onto others.

Go!  Get out there and get all the experience you can.  Just be careful.

Mooneymite:

My experience as well, just not in ASW.  Shoved into positions of responsibility when we are young will only result in bringing everyone home again if we listen to the experience of our team members.  The only thing they have not been given is overall responsibility for the success of the team - that is ours alone to bear and we cannot abrogate it.  But listening to them and learning from them makes success attainable under such circumstances.

BTW:  Thank you for your service.

[Ned Gravel]

On 11/24/2017 at 2:37 AM, gsxrpilot said:

My in-laws of about 10 years, gave up complaining about 9.5 years ago when they realized we weren't about to concern ourselves with their worries. While not exactly the same thing, they were always worried about their daughter's travel to "interesting" places around the globe. And always tried to convince her of the dangers. Then she met me, and the travel just accelerated. It's been 62 countries and all 7 continents in these last 10 years. They didn't like the Mooney either, but we've been all over the US in it anyway. 

They've just given up and thrown in the towel on trying to control what their fully grown children are doing. After all, it's none of their damn business anyway.

Paul:

I just like the fact that you provide your girl with the "fast horse" part of the bargain.  Not just a Mooney to fly in, but adventures she would not otherwise get a chance to experience.  We are the same, my girl and I.  Some adventures before I retired from the Army and some adventures when I got involved in international recognition of national quality infrastructure.  Her bucket list is almost complete.  Couple more places to visit and one of them gets done next year this time.  

[Alan Fox]

2 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

So my logic goes like this.  We took 18 yr olds put them in a tiger moth, 12 hours then a PT6 or similar 12 hours then a Spitfire 12 hours.  Then they went to shoot down Jerry.  

Now i KNOW that is not a brilliant comparison but a less than 100 hour pilot flying g a Spitfire, holy Malone, I've got way more than that at it would scare the hell out of me to fly a Spitfire.  So hours are not everything, TRAINING is though.  

Go flying on those not so good days, get a little uncomfortable, sweaty back etc. Learn not to panic. The biggest tip I can ever give you and it has taken me decades to learn this, DO NOT PANIC.  Whatever else is happening, unless the plane is in fire, the wing has fallen off then the plane is still flying even if it has an engine failure so there is no need to fly because you know how to do that. 

Build that experience, go and get an IR as well.  

Always take the better halves with you it makes flying more fun. 

Más for driving v flying, well every year in April and May we fly to Bezier in France (600 miles) but in August we go camping to the same spot (200kg of camping gear and a Mooney don't mix) so we drive 16 hours!   I always thing of how many times we could go there and back in the plane while driving.

do you have any idea how many young pilots died in training accidents , back then ///

[Alan Fox]

my 2 cents , your in laws fears are real , and they are justified , every time a small plane crashes and people die in them..... and guess what , at 1200 hours the majority of the victims have more time and experience than I do ....  I am not arrogant enough to believe that I am so much better a pilot than all of them...  if your in laws fears are that bothersome to you , guess what ... your wife puts her relationship with her parents above her relationship with you....  that's the way it works.....  if you dismiss the inlaws , you will jeopardize your relationship with your wife ,   its time to prioritize whats more important......   quit bitching about driving 10 hours , if the weather was bad you would be driving otherwise...  just do it to make everybody else happy ,   not everybody loves to fly , or appreciates it....     notice this post had nothing to do with your hours or experience..... as I have never flown with you , and cant judge your skills..... 

[NJMac]

Ive got more info than I bargained for. Obviously its a heated topic. I appreciate you all who respecfully voiced an oposing view. Also appreciate those who agreed with me, my wife, and my instructor who all thought flying there was a safe plan. Im tapping out of this one. Thanks again!

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[jetdriven]

1 hour ago, Alan Fox said:

do you have any idea how many young pilots died in training accidents , back then ///

Wasn’t it just ablut as many who died in combat?  

[gitmo234]

1 hour ago, NJMac said:

Ive got more info than I bargained for. Obviously its a heated topic. I appreciate you all who respecfully voiced an oposing view. Also appreciate those who agreed with me, my wife, and my instructor who all thought flying there was a safe plan. Im tapping out of this one. Thanks again!

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So, reading into this more....its 200 miles??? 

I took my wife 1000 miles in a Cessna at around 80 hours. The weather was perfect. I was a nervous pilot and still am sometimes. The in-laws concerns are valid, but honestly, a 200 mile trip in perfect weather is about as simple as they get. I would've considered going there solo first just to be familiar with the airport. I did that a lot early on. If you cant be counted on to fly 200 miles with one passenger on a perfect day, including all terrain and weather analysis, then what's the point of getting a PPL. I say that as someone who recently got the stupid pilot card stamped. I cant remember private requirements but wasn't our X-country solo longer than that in total? 

Hours do usually correlate with with wisdom but I'd venture that one of the biggest causes if not the biggest cause of accidents in GA is flying into weather. Leaving the family dynamics and parental concerns aside (and any concern on how you should or should not handle your family), that flight was about as textbook as it gets. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by gitmo234

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, NJMac said:

Ive got more info than I bargained for. Obviously its a heated topic. I appreciate you all who respecfully voiced an oposing view. Also appreciate those who agreed with me, my wife, and my instructor who all thought flying there was a safe plan. Im tapping out of this one. Thanks again!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

The group is a bit sensitive on the topic. We have lost several members from this forum and it touches us on a personal level. A few of these accidents involved relatively low time pilots;

Patrick that Byron (jetdriven) mentioned was a 250 PP who killed himself, a passenger and injured a third on a night takeoff, using a slightly uphill, short runway and took off from a taxiway. Houman was a relatively new pilot (<200 hours) who was returning from a vacation in Florida with his 9 year old son aboard. He was almost home and died on a takeoff accident, leaving his son severely injured.

Others involved experience pilots. One killed heading to Mooney PPP, another on an instructional flight -- list goes on and on...

This is what you are seeing on this forum -- a morning coffee call to make sure you don't take this activity lightly and in the same context as you do when you get in your car in the morning. 

[gitmo234]

This makes me want to start a thread for sharing stories of the times we've had to clean our pants when we landed. 

[Marauder]

Just now, gitmo234 said:

This makes me want to start a thread for sharing stories of the times we've had to clean our pants when we landed. 

You want a sobering experience? Tag along with an airplane salvage team a few times and watch the cleanup process. 

[gitmo234]

Just now, Marauder said:

You want a sobering experience? Tag along with an airplane salvage team a few times and watch the cleanup process. 

I've had my share of clean up and sobering experiences. 

[aviatoreb]

6 minutes ago, Marauder said:

The group is a bit sensitive on the topic. We have lost several members from this forum and it touches us on a personal level. A few of these accidents involved relatively low time pilots;

Patrick that Byron (jetdriven) mentioned was a 250 PP who killed himself, a passenger and injured a third on a night takeoff, using a slightly uphill, short runway and took off from a taxiway. Houman was a relatively new pilot (<200 hours) who was returning from a vacation in Florida with his 9 year old son aboard. He was almost home and died on a takeoff accident, leaving his son severely injured.

Others involved experience pilots. One killed heading to Mooney PPP, another on an instructional flight -- list goes on and on...

This is what you are seeing on this forum -- a morning coffee call to make sure you don't take this activity lightly and in the same context as you do when you get in your car in the morning. 

Quite right Marauder.

I don't know one of those 4 incidents you mentioned, but by memory anyway, the other three involved a strong dose of decision making problems that could easily have avoided their accidents entirely.

Houman had his problem upon landing, not take-off.

[NJMac]

So, reading into this more....its 200 miles??? 
I took my wife 1000 miles in a Cessna at around 80 hours. The weather was perfect. I was a nervous pilot and still am sometimes. The in-laws concerns are valid, but honestly, a 200 mile trip in perfect weather is about as simple as they get. I would've considered going there solo first just to be familiar with the airport. I did that a lot early on. If you cant be counted on to fly 200 miles with one passenger on a perfect day, including all terrain and weather analysis, then what's the point of getting a PPL. I say that as someone who recently got the stupid pilot card stamped. I cant remember private requirements but wasn't our X-country solo longer than that in total? 
Hours do usually correlate with with wisdom but I'd venture that one of the biggest causes if not the biggest cause of accidents in GA is flying into weather. Leaving the family dynamics and parental concerns aside (and any concern on how you should or should not handle your family), that flight was about as textbook as it gets. 

I considered bringing up a similar point. I was looking at my long solo XC and it was 3.1 hours. It included landing at two unfamiliar airports. This trip really sounded like something the FAA actually required me to do a few months previously. Obviously that was in a Solo capacity

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