Can I make a Mooney fit my profile?

[legallegend]

I have posted here before, but I have been focusing on a Bonanza for a while so I have forgotten most of what you all have shared.  I apologize.

My missions are as follows:

1)  Family trips: up to 500 nm; wife and me (310 lbs total); kids (80 total) - 75%

2)  Me and guys: up to 200 nm - I have big friends.  It could be a total of 800 lbs of people if I took 4 - 20%

3)  Me and guys: up to 400 nm - 5%

Can I do missions 2 and 3 in a Mooney?  If so, which one?  Budget is up to $150K.

Thanks

[mooneygirl]

I would look at an Ovation, perhaps a '94. 

[legallegend]

Thanks Jolie.  Looking forward to advice from all here.  A little more info about me.  I am looking at a partnership with 2 other pilots.  We have similar size families.  I have been leaning toward A36s due to the barn doors and a desire for more payload.  However, one of the potential partners has brought up Mooneys so I am back to figuring out if I can make it work.  It may be that I have to find something that does 95% of my missions and forgo the last 5%.

[N601RX]

Quote: legallegend

I have posted here before, but I have been focusing on a Bonanza for a while so I have forgotten most of what you all have shared.  I apologize.

My missions are as follows:

1)  Family trips: up to 500 nm; wife and me (310 lbs total); kids (80 total) - 75%

2)  Me and guys: up to 200 nm - I have big friends.  It could be a total of 800 lbs of people if I took 4 - 20%

3)  Me and guys: up to 400 nm - 5%

Can I do missions 2 and 3 in a Mooney?  If so, which one?  Budget is up to $150K.

Thanks

[fantom]

Most all Mooneys in your price range will serve performs the 3 missoins above very well, and at much lower operating costs than a Bonanza.  

[Cruiser]

you will be hard pressed to find a Mooney with more than 1000# useful load.

Mission 3 is unlikely,

Mission 2 would be marginal.

It depends on how comfortable you are with the fuel gauges pointing to the left all the time.

[jetdriven]

1.  all the time, 155 knots in a early J like ours. 

2. we can take 4 200 LB persons and around 35 gallons of fuel, enough for 2:45 plus reserve.

3. with a tailwind close. without, yes a stop. 

 

we looked at older V-tails like M-35 to S35.   a 80K V-tail was faster but you're not putting 4 adults in it ever. and the fuel burn was in the 14-16 GPH range VS. 10.     An A-36 will do anything you wish but it costs more and fuel (14-16 GPH) and parts are issues.   It is a fine aircraft if you have the money, the interior is much larger.

[legallegend]

Thank you for the responses.  Keep them coming.  Are you all telling me that I can get 155 kts+ on 10 gph?  You can get 160-165 in a A36 on 12.5. 

It is interesting that you say the operating costs are a lot more on the Bonanza.  Not counting cost of capital, I believe that I can operate a mid 1970's A36 on about $180/hour. 

What are we looking at on a per hour basis for the Mooney?

[Parker_Woodruff]

you can do it.  getting in the back seats is the challenge, but once you're back there, it's not bad.  I'd want to do it in an older ovation or Screamin' Eagle.

operating costs depend a lot on how quick your plane is depreciating.

Where do you live?  Up high with all that weight, I'd want a turbo

[KLRDMD]

Quote: Cruiser

you will be hard pressed to find a Mooney with more than 1000# useful load.

[legallegend]

I live in East Tennessee.  Going to the beach I have to overfly the Smoky Mountains, but that is only at 11000 or 12000.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: legallegend

I leave in East Tennessee.  Going to the beach I have to overfly the Smoky Mountains, but that is only at 11000 or 12000.

[legallegend]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

 

[Lood]

Ditto on the F. Mine has a usefull load of 1040lbs. So, if you load it up with 800lbs of guys, you're left with 40 gals of fuel which should easily take you 400nm at around 135-140 kts and leave you with a 1 hour reserve.

However, I flew my F at about MAUW two weeks ago from a 3000ft airfield and the OAT was 80 deg F. Take off was a non event but climb performance up to FL085 was very marginal and took a loooong time. I'd say I averaged a 200-300ft/min ROC. If I regularly had to fly at max weight from higher airfields in summertime, I would certainly opt for a turbo or something with more than 200hp.

The M20J is way more effecient than the F, though and will return better climb performance. It's higher speed will also counter the fact that it has less useful load, because you can load less fuel.

[flight2000]

The other thing to throw out there is the A36 has 6-cylinders (same as the M20M and up), so something along the lines of the F is going to be cheaper for overhauls, and a TOP (if required) with just 4-cylinders.  I like the TN option as well.  I haven't heard of to many Lycomings needing a top overhaul like the conti's seem to need about half way through their TBO.  The recommended TBO is going to be higher on the Mooney's as well compared to the Bo's.

I did the same research when I thought about trading up to an A36, but the Mooney was just that much cheaper to maintain and operate.  I'm over at BeechTalk as well and they try to do a good job keeping it objective, but each forum will push their brand (some harder than others).  It's like some sort of ritual for validation that we bought the right aircraft.  Can't beat the barn doors and load hauling of the A36 though.

[legallegend]

Is there a site that compares the various models through the years?

[flight2000]

This one is a good one that gives the differences by year.

http://www.mooneyevents.com/chrono.htm

[tyrefoote]

I would have to decline mission #2 because the rear seats of my '88 J are placarded to a max 170# weight restriction.  I have the 2900# gross wt increase and I can tell you that at that wt. and a density altitude of 2500ft the takeoffs are borderline unsafe. The takeoff roll is only slightly longer ,but once airborne the plane will not climb out of ground efect with the gear and flaps down and I was very relucltant to retract being only 10' off.  But to answer your question, It will be doable for the other 75% of missions. Although not as spaceously comfortable as the A36 with the big rear door, 6 seat club seating and Oh the $60/hr operating cost difference premium.

Hope this helps Ty   

[flight2000]

Quote: tyrefoote

I would have to decline mission #2 because the rear seats of my '88 J are placarded to a max 170# weight restriction.

[fantom]

In your $150K price range, we're talking a solid M20J (201) or M20R (Ovation), and as I said either of them can handle 800# of stuff inside the cabin. The J (newer one's have at least 950 lbs. of usefull load) will only carry 30 to 35 gallons of fue legallyl, which will get you 200 nm easily, and 400 nm, but tightly. If you're going IFR the margin for 400 mn is unacceptable.

Some of the confusion you're reading is, as you know, there are lots of Mooney models, with differing useful loads and fuel requirements, and most of us tend to talk about our model, even when it isn't highlighted.

Ther real issue for you is if 25% of your flying is with 3 big friends, ANY Mooney may be tight and uncomfortable for them, pointing you to the Bonanza A-36. The Mooney Ovation will be a better option than the M20J, IMHO.

[danb35]

Quote: fantom

Ther real issue for you is if 25% of your flying is with 3 big friends, ANY Mooney may be tight and uncomfortable for them, pointing you to the Bonanza A-36. The Mooney Ovation will be a better option than the M20J, IMHO.

[tyrefoote]

Brian

I interpret It to mean per rear seat they are both placarded.

Ty

[mooniac58]

Quote: flight2000

Ty, is that per seat or combined weight for the back seats?  I've never seen one with those types of restrictions before.

Thanks.

 

My 1987 J has this restriction has well - it is 170lbs per seat.  I once put a very large woman in the back by herself though - I think she was around 250lbs...and technically I don't think her entire rear was on just one seat cusion so that could be debated whether I was in violation or not

[fantom]

Splitting hairs but the Ovation does have a bit more room in the front and back. May be the new interiors. I want to be at the scale for any F claiming 1025 lbs of useful load. Maybe it's got thin paint, no cushoning and minimal avionics, but still doubtful IMHO.

Anyway if your planned mission profiles turn out to be the real ones, it's an A-36 that best fit it, with a Mooney Ovation a possibility. 

The best answer to your question is "it depends". Good luck!

 

[KLRDMD]

Quote: fantom

 I want to be at the scale for any F claiming 1025 lbs of useful load. Maybe it's got thin paint, no cushoning and minimal avionics, but still doubtful IMHO.