N number marking size question

[Spurious Moppet]

My 66 E was repainted in 2010 or 2011 and the N number was done in 2" letters. At an FBO recently and a mechanic said he thought the size was no longer legal. I read an advisory circular about it and there appears to be an exemption for classic/antique airplanes, but It is confusing and I can't tell if it applies. Anyone run into this issue and have some insight?

[ArtVandelay]

Do you plan on flying outside the USA?

[Hank]

It's legal in the U.S. You still need the big numbers (tape or temporary vinyl are OK) if you cross the border. 

[mooneygirl]

Since I do not plan to fly outside of US, [or I can add temporary numbers] and I am vintage [1965] I decided to go with the smaller numbers.  ArtCraft Paint in Santa Maria CA helped me understand the requirements [which I qualified for]. 

I love how sleek she looks

[Spurious Moppet]

Thanks for the replies. I knew it needed bigger numbers internationally but wasn't sure about the domestic part. Thanks!

[cliffy]

Nice paint job

[flight2000]

Nope, you're fine.  When I repainted my 67E back in 2010, I went with 3" N Numbers and they are authorized under 14 CFR 45.22.  Basically, any certified aircraft over 30 years old (measured from today's date) may retain 2" numbers (or larger) as the minimum size.  The date the aircraft was/is painted is irrelevant in any discussion as an argument for saying only 12" numbers are legal. 

Cheers,

Brian

 

 

[Guest]

I believe that cross border flights between Canada and the U.S. are OK with smaller numbers, but crossing the ADIZ requires 12" size.

Clarence

[rbridges]

On 6/24/2017 at 4:51 PM, flight2000 said:

Nope, you're fine.  When I repainted my 67E back in 2010, I went with 3" N Numbers and they are authorized under 14 CFR 45.22.  Basically, any certified aircraft over 30 years old (measured from today's date) may retain 2" numbers (or larger) as the minimum size.  The date the aircraft was/is painted is irrelevant in any discussion as an argument for saying only 12" numbers are legal. 

Cheers,

Brian

 

 

Thanks for the clarification. I knew the older planes could have smaller numbers, but I thought bigger numbers may have been required when repainted. 

[cliffy]

There was a time when  smaller numbers we being put on younger airplanes and that's where the :repaint: confusion comes in. It was required at repaint to go to larger numbers if it was a younger airplane. Our old stuff comes under a different set of rules.  

[Wildhorsesracing]

I went with the bigger numbers because they were already on mine, I thought about the smaller numbers but didn't want to have to prove it was legal every time I flew somewhere.

[Bob_Belville]

10 hours ago, Wildhorsesracing said:

I went with the bigger numbers because they were already on mine, I thought about the smaller numbers but didn't want to have to prove it was legal every time I flew somewhere.

No one who is even casually familiar with Mooneys is going to mistake that profile for a modern plane. 

[Aviationinfo]

Absolutely no question that 2" is legal on older airplanes.   However, you will occasionally run into someone who hasn't spent the necessary time really going through the regs and wants to point out your error.  Ask me how I know...

[Dave Morris]

"On an aircraft displaying 2-inch marks before November 1, 1981, and on aircraft manufactured between November 2, 1981, and January 1, 1983, you may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed. Once the aircraft is repainted or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed, the N-number is required to be 12 inches high." from https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC 45-2D.pdf

[Hank]

Dave, the rules have changed . . . .

(b) A small U.S.-registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago or a U.S.-registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been issued under §21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same external configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated without displaying marks in accordance with §§45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 if:

(1) It displays in accordance with §45.21(c) marks at least 2 inches high on each side of the fuselage or vertical tail surface consisting of the Roman capital letter “N” followed by:

(i) The U.S. registration number of the aircraft; or

(ii) The symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the aircraft (“C”, standard; “R”, restricted; “L”, limited; or “X”, experimental) followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft; and

(2) It displays no other mark that begins with the letter “N” anywhere on the aircraft, unless it is the same mark that is displayed under paragraph (b)(1) of this section.

[Aviationinfo]

In the AC above, note that in Table 2 it says that Antique Aircraft may use 2" numbers.   Then in Appendix C of the AC it defines antique aircraft as those US-registered aircraft having been built at least 30 years ago.

Keep in mind that the FAA doesn't regulate through Advisory Circulars.   AC's are policy / guidance documents.  

[Hank]

My post above is from FAR 45.22 (b), not an Advisory Circular. It is dated in May 2017 on the FAA website.