Mooney IFR Students' Thread

[flyboy0681]

You may be right. And the most amazing thing is that the person answering the listening device at King Nuero will be no other than Martha King herself.

 

 

[kortopates]

A couple thoughts on the written...

Although it maybe frustrating studying for written questions that may seem out of date because they lacks some of todays most important NAS capabilities - I wouldn't let it get you down. Just keep it in perspective that the written is just the minor one of the two main hurdles needed for price of admission to the DPE to get your ticket. Afterall, there is really nothing on there that isn't still in use and thus applicable. Even the ancient ADF is still in use to the north (AK) and south (MX)  - right? But its pretty much guaranteed these days you'll get your opportunity to discuss the modern NAS issues not covered on your written during the oral portion. Such as the capabilities, limitations, pre-flight differences between the TSO C-129 GPS and the TSO C-146 GPS; as an example - even if your plane has neither. Which is all the more reason to wrap up that written as your first priority so you'll be able to concentrate your time learning to fly the procedures and all the other important practical matters needed to exercise the ticket that you'll be learning eventhough they're not covered on the written - including basics like can you file IFR to an airport without an instrument procedure, can you fly a GPS procedure during a GPS NOTAM for unreliable service etc. etc. (Be sure not to be one of those students that complains about the written and cries fowl when the DPE asks them about current issues like this because it wasn't on the written!)

Its all good, its all learning and hopefully that makes it all fun!

Same for the A&P exam and practical. I'll confess at the start I thought what a waste of time to learn about wood, frabric and radials given my interest was sheetmetal and composites when I did my A&P - but actually they're just as essential as turbine engines are given how many examples are still flying today and the fact that the A&P privileges allow you work on any aircraft. But yes, there is no new technology their either. But highly recommend it for the pilot that wants to be knowledgeable of the airworthiness of the the plane they fly.

Of course, YMMV.

[mooneygirl]

So my Mooney-Boy, Mitch is off taking the written. Go Mitch! I know you can do it.  He has been studying like crazy for three months. I am so proud.

[thinwing]

All right !!!As soon as he gets back from testing center with reports of 95% passage,give him congrats hug from me and Jana...kpc

[jlunseth]

Good luck everybody.  The IA is a ton of work.  When I was done, I didn't feel like taking another lesson again for awhile, so I took about 6 months off and now am working on my Commercial, and shortly, Ground Instructor. 

I fly a fair number of long distance trips, and I almost always fly IFR on those trips because there will always be some kind of weather enroute.  Also, it is great to have the controller right there if something goes wrong.  And it is also great protection against TFR's and other gotchas.  ATC will keep you out of MOA's when they go active.  It is just a great way to fly.

I have learned a few things about what I was taught in my instruction.  I don't think it is likely I will ever be asked to do a hold, except maybe during a missed approach, but even that is not very likely.  On the other hand, we never did SIDs or STARs during instruction, because they are just too long.  But I get them almost every flight out of town, especially SIDs.  Normally, ATC will not have you fly the entire SID, they will vector you for awhile, then give you a "Direct To" a waypoint in the SID.  They may have you fly a couple of the waypoints, but at some point after they have you away from the local B or C airspace, they will give you a "Direct To" your destination airport. 

It is really important to learn to use all the features of your GPS because of the instructions you will get in real life from ATC.  For example, if they give you the ORSKY4 departure, Ft. Dodge transition, you can probably figure out how to call that up and enter it into the flight plan.  But do you know how to choose any waypoint in the ORSKY4 and go direct to that waypoint at any time?  Do you know how to add your final destination to the flight plan.  Do you know how to go direct to that final destination from anywhere on the ORSKY4?  When you are flying an approach, can you pick a segment of that approach and go direct to that segment (cause ATC will sometimes make you do that).

So if you are going to have a GPS in your plane, and I think most of us do now, better learn to use it really well.  ATC is going to expect that.  VORs, ADFs, and even ILSs are rapidly becoming a thing of the past, and in the new IFR structure, GPS skills are critical.   Unfortunately, FAA training has not caught up.  There are dozens of RMI and ADF questions on the written, but only about 5 possible GPS questions, yet you will find your real life flying to be close to 100% GPS.

[thinwing]

Jlunseth,well stated ,especially regarding real world gps use in NAS.I read somewhere that the garmin 430/530 series are the most common (over 50000 sold in various forms)and not one of them is capable of directly programming a victor airway.Approaches,sids,stars all there under "procedures" and really easy to pullup and insert in fltplan page.ATC likes to give vectors to intercept airways.The solution to this is know hos to use you gps in "obs"mode.That way you can put the nearest vor in the fltplan que ,hit obs button and than simply rotate crs knob to right bearing...you than get a nice magenta line...your victor airway that atc wants you to intercept.Atc loves amended clearances!!!If you have a 430/530/696/496....learn to actvate fltplan segments by use of direct direct enter.If you use fltplan.com...you tell it to file your flightplan and about an hour it will text your cell phone with you clearance...pretty cool when you already know what ATC will say.Dont be shy about Pireps...last weekend flight to Santa maria involved flying thru a few cells cold enough to cause icing.Atc had zero pireps on this and really wanted to know when and where and what temperature.Dont be afraid to refuse or clarify a clearance you dont understand...just say unable....regarding adfs...no body is seriously going to navigate when they have a certified gps aboard...in fact all the ndb approaches I know about have gps equivalents....also I havent tuned in a vor in over a year.....sinc kp couch

[MooneyMitch]

Ok, done.  97% on the knowledge test.  I'll take it.  Best to everyone headed in the test direction.  

[Hank]

Granted, much of my IFR flying is in VMC, but it's a great way to get around/through/into complex airspace. I've flown exactly one real hold [three planes going together to eat, and we needed a pop-up clearance--first plane cleared in, the other two got to climb and hold].

As for tuning in VORs, I frequently use them in Nav 2 just to keep up with my position on my sectional. Yeah, I use paper, good old VFR sectionals, and carry the marked Low Enroutes, too, just in case, but have yet to need them. The screen on the 430 is pretty small, and I often keep it off the map to verify correct wind correction when it is blowing strong. Why wait to get a dot or two off on the VOR head when right there on the screen is my actual ground track?

[fantom]

Congrats, Mitch....quite impressive!

[Hank]

Congratulations, Mitch! You must have burned the writing off of the pages in the book!

[kortopates]

For those not aware of the ability to get your clearance before actually departing that kp couch brings up - here is a tip: You don't need to use fltplan.com to get a email or text. Just register with flightware.com (free) and you can set up email and/or text alerting for flight plans and more. You'll get your expected clearance soon as its in the system - which is 2 hours before departure if you file with a DUAT provider. Very helpful service!

I echo jlunseth and kp couch comments and would add that although holds are very rare in center airspace they are not that ununusual in busier tracon airspace such as in my socal area. In fact whenever we have benign IFR day on the weekend due to a thick marine layer, lots of local pilots will be up flying approaches for practice and ATC will have the planes stacked up waiting for their turn at the approach. And to add underline the comment on how important it is to know how to use your GPS well, being very comfortable with the OBS feature should have you scratching your head why some feel they need a capability to enter holds into their GNS430/530 - what could be simpler than pushing OBS with the holding waypoint your next fix and turing the OBS/HSI to the inbound course??

have fun!

[jezzie]

Quote: Mitch

Ok, done.  97% on the knowledge test.  I'll take it.  Best to everyone headed in the test direction.  

[Seth]

Congratulations Mitch!  When you press that button on the screen at that end stating: YES - Give me my score - it's a great feeling to have a passing number, let alone 97%!  Now go ace the oral and practical.

[231Pilot]

Attaboy Mitch! Congratulations!

[FlyingAggie]

Congratulation Mitch!  Of course you realize you have put yourself in a no win situation with Jolie? 

My goal was to have taken the written on Monday, but unexpected events at work interrupted my plan, so maybe I'll find time next week.  All I can say is that you have certainly set a high bar for the rest of us to actually post our scores online.

How many hours under the hood do you have?

[FlyingAggie]

Since my post about my "humbling" lesson in the a/c on 15 Feb, I have done two more lessons in the plane.  These sessions have gone somewhat better.  My instructor has me flying back to back approaches (going missed and then requesting another approach at the same airport) and entering published and nonpublished holds. She keeps adding to the work load: in the last two lessons, I have handled all the radio work with ATC. 

I am making slow progress, but still feel like I have a long way to go.  My instructor continues to track every time I bust the PTS for airspeed, altitude and heading and her totals at the end of the lesson are pretty humbling.  I am still amazed at how quickly things get out of whack when I am trying to find an IAP or setup an approach on the 530.    This is by far the most demanding thing I have done.

My biggest problem yesterday is tracking the glide slope. For some reason I am having trouble establishing a stable 500 to 700 FPM descent.  It should be simple to establish the a/c in a 95 knot level flight with t/o flaps and then drop the gear, reduce power and follow the glide slope down, but instead I am turning it into roller coaster ride .  I think it may be my death grip on the yoke, even though I am trying to be light and gentle.

I am hoping to step the training up to two or three session per week for the next couple of weeks, but we have another snow storm coming in today and then my annual is up at the end of March.

Next lesson should be interesting.    We will be flying more approaches, but my instructor has warned me that she suspects some of my flight instruments in 2MB are about to fail.

[MooneyMitch]

Good job Alan, keep after it. 

[skyking]

Great Job Mitch. You beat my score by 2 when i wrote mine. Best i could muster was a 95.

[thinwing]

Alan...regarding your chasing the glide scope...every complex single (every plane for that matter)has magic #s regarding power.In my Mooney ,I keep it simple ..only 2 #s...25 in manufold while being vectored and 20 in at approach final course intercept.Upon seeing the glidescope needle center ,Only than do I lower gear and approach flaps at same time.This provides a natural ,stable 500 ft/min descent....Hopefully your instructor has determined your Mooneys #s so that you arent having to constantly adjust pitch and power to maintain glidescope...sinc kp couch

[thinwing]

oh...and I think I recall getting a 76 on my written!!!!...LOL,kp- couch

[Hank]

Alan--

With the noted exception that your big-bore will handle differently than my carbed 4-banger, I found through trial and error that 90 knot approach speed handled much better with approach flaps already in, and to descend along the glideslope all I had to do was drop the gear about 1½ dots high. By the time the needle reached center, I had begun to descend; if I waited until the needle centered to drop the gear, I would be high and the pushover I gave was always too much, taking me underneath so that I could then pull up . . . Try dropping your gear at center, and see where you go, then adjust by dropping the gear a little higher so that you don't have to push the yoke over. You can do this by yourself, VFR, at any airport that has either ILS or GPS approach, as the glideslopes are mostly the same.

As with everything else, the plane likes to fly and doesn't like to slow down. Go to your practice area, drop the gear and time how long it takes the plane to start down. It should ease the workload during approaches to find this point, and drop the gear early.

[MooneyMitch]

I agree with Kelly.  I too believe the numbers play a key role in this, just as they do during VFR approaches with good landings.  Finding your numbers is something we did a few months ago when this all started.  We now have those numbers taped on the instrument panel in the E model.  

All this was highly recommended by our flight instructor. 

[FlyingAggie]

I agree about flying by the numbers.   At the beginning of my IR taining, we went out to attempt to fill out the power/configuration table for my a/c, but everytime it was one of those mountain wave days with 500 fpm updrafts/downdrafts.  The results didn't make a whole lots of sense.  I have been using the power/configuration settings from the Mooney Pilots Course for the 252 that someone sent me.

Think I will go out and fly some descent VFR and try to verify the settings.  It is probably just my ham handed flying!

[FlyingAggie]

Hank,

Now that I think about it that maybe happening to me.  I may have been one dot or less when I dropped the gear.   Ninety knots and approach flaps about 3 miles before the FAF and then drop the gear when the g/s is 1 dot high, but one time I was late and dropped it when the g/s was centered.  I had to push over trying to catch the g/s and then overshot and then the "chase" begins.  I may not being patient enough and need to drop it earlier.

I plan to follow your suggestion the next calm day we have and try it VFR.

BTW, the bore of your cylinders in your four banger IO360 is  2/3rd bigger than the bore of my TSIO360 six banger, so you have the big bore engine!!!!

Quote: Hank

Alan--

With the noted exception that your big-bore will handle differently than my carbed 4-banger, I found through trial and error that 90 knot approach speed handled much better with approach flaps already in, and to descend along the glideslope all I had to do was drop the gear about 1½ dots high. By the time the needle reached center, I had begun to descend; if I waited until the needle centered to drop the gear, I would be high and the pushover I gave was always too much, taking me underneath so that I could then pull up . . . Try dropping your gear at center, and see where you go, then adjust by dropping the gear a little higher so that you don't have to push the yoke over. You can do this by yourself, VFR, at any airport that has either ILS or GPS approach, as the glideslopes are mostly the same.

As with everything else, the plane likes to fly and doesn't like to slow down. Go to your practice area, drop the gear and time how long it takes the plane to start down. It should ease the workload during approaches to find this point, and drop the gear early.

[N6784N]

atc normally has you intercept the localizer at a 30 degree angle. if im doing a approach to say runway 090 and they have me at 060 i get my flaps and gear down to slow to me around 100 to 110. once they clear me for the approach i keep 100 to 110 until 1 dot above the glide slope intercept then slow to 90 knts and fly that down the approach. i do that to split the work load up so im not having to be touching alot of stuff in the plane while im trying to look at the approach chart, talking to atc so on. on a vfr day do some approaches and get your power settings for your initial approach fix say 110 knts with gear and flaps down and 90 knts at 300, 400 and 500 fpm in the clean and dirty configuration. write them down and have them for when your doing the real thing. i think the key to a stablized approach is to use minimal throttle control and more pitch and trim ( i normally only touch my throttle once maybe twice on a approach but i shoot for none). if you get everything down before the approach starts thats less work and will give you a chance to get aclamated to everything before hand and let you go over the chart more and fly the airplane. putting the gear down a dot before g/s intercept is fine once you get the experience and know what to expect in different types weather but if your new or training why not split the work load up? anyway knowing what rpms' setting is going to be your key to a nice stable approach imo