How much money do I need for a quality Mooney?

[ragedracer1977]

I know, I know, the answer is 'it depends', lol.

However, I'm probably going to be in the market in the next few months.  I just finished selling a house and am building up funds.  I'm probably going to have between 50 and 65k when the time comes.  My 'dream' is an M20F.  IFR equipped, GPS, AP, low-mid time engine, etc.  Why an F?  Well, I guess just because.  The useful loads seem to be a little higher and it has 200HP and seems to typically fall in the range I'm looking at.  

My mission should mostly be flying 2 adults and 2 kids (somewhere around 550-600lbs of people) from the Phoenix area to northern AZ, field elevation in N. AZ is 6415msl.  Also, my wife has family in San Antonio, so trips to that area are also likely.  

Basically I'm wondering if I'm budgeting in the right neighborhood.  Am I way high, too low, or what can I expect to pick up for that amount?  

Just to add, in my mind, this will be my 'forever' plane.  I'm nearing 40, my kids are growing.  My daughter is 15 and my son is 9.  So just a few years, really, of flying my daughter, then 8-10 with my son.  

 

Edited April 25, 2017 by ragedracer1977

[Ned Gravel]

If your MEA is going to be 9,000 - 10,000 an F will be fine.  If it is going to be higher than that, then a turbo might be needed, especially if you have to fight headwinds over the granite clouds below you.

Which takes us back to your question - how much to spend?  You will eventually find that you can find a decent F for anywhere from 45,000 to 60,000.  Below that, things will be missing which may give you pause (no IFR GPS, engine well beyond midlife, tanks that leak, corrosion, etc).  Above that, you will find F models fully kitted out with things that are shiny and kewl, but not really needed for an F to fly from Boston to LA.  

As well, it is likely that aircraft in that range will be well looked-after and they will show it.  Paint and interior are nice, but engine and airframe are what really count.  SB 208 for rust on the steel frame.  No corrosion on the spar and a stiffener already installed on the stub spar.  Tanks that do not leak.  An alternator instead of a generator. A skytec starter.  An engine monitor.  

Good luck.

[ragedracer1977]

10k is pretty solid for any flying I currently plan on doing.  Phoenix area to Southern California, Northern Arizona, Texas, etc.  Somedays I might wish I had a turbo, but right now I think that's beyond my budget and I would just have to adjust my flying for that.  

Sounds like I'm budgeting in the right ballpark.  I'm not so much concerned with how the paint looks or the interior.  I rent ragged out 172's right now, so it would take quite a bit to turn me off when it comes to looks.  

I will definitely be asking for lots of advice when the search begins.  

[Hank]

You are in an acceptable budgetary ballpark. Many fine examples can be purchased in that range.

The real answer to "how much will a good Mooney cost?" IIs "all that you have." Notice I didn't say, "all that you have available" or even "all that you can afford" . . . . . But it is worth it!

[ragedracer1977]

5 minutes ago, Hank said:

You are in an acceptable budgetary ballpark. Many fine examples can be purchased in that range.

The real answer to "how much will a good Mooney cost?" IIs "all that you have." Notice I didn't say, "all that you have available" or even "all that you can afford" . . . . . But it is worth it!

 

You can always make more right?

[ragedracer1977]

My biggest concern is if I budget say $55000 for the purchase, I want to make sure I don't get stuck in a place where all of a sudden I find out I have to spend another $20k because I missed something.

[Hank]

Just now, ragedracer1977 said:

My biggest concern is if I budget say $55000 for the purchase, I want to make sure I don't get stuck in a place where all of a sudden I find out I have to spend another $20k because I missed something.

Get a good pre-purchase inspection from someone who KNOWS Mooneys, have the seller pay for all airworthiness issues, and use the rest of the squawk list as a negotiating tool. Many people recommend having 10% of the purchase price ready for other things that "appear" after purchase, but that was not my experience (other than a continuing avgas bill . . . ) 

[carusoam]

Rough pricing that covers the things that people pay extra for...

You can always find one for less.  A PPI can keep you from getting stuck.

1) C 30 AMU

2) E 40 AMU

3) F 50 AMU

4) Low time engine Add another 10 AMU

5) Newish Paint Add 5 AMU

6) Newish interior Add 5 AMU

7) Resealed tanks Add 5 AMU

8) WAAS gps Add 5 AMU

9) Autopilot connected to the GPS Add 5 amu

10) Updated six pack IP Add 5 AMU

11) A real nice full loaded J is going to be near 100AMU

I started with A), 17 years ago.  PP thoughts only, not a sales guy.  For actual sales numbers, go see Jimmy and David @ All American....  http://m.allamericanaircraft.com/List/Aircraft/ForSale

 

Best regards,

-a-

Edited April 25, 2017 by carusoam

[Hoeschen]

1) C 30 AMU
2) E 40 AMU
3) F 50 AMU
4) Low time engine Add another 10 AMU
5) Newish Paint Add 5 AMU
6) Newish interior Add 5 AMU
7) Resealed tanks Add 5 AMU
8) WAAS gps Add 5 AMU
9) Autopilot connected to the GPS Add 5 amu
10) Updated six pack IP Add 5 AMU
11) A real nice full loaded J is going to be near 100AMU
I started with A), 17 years ago.
Best regards,
-a-

Based on this my C is a good bargain! Make me an offer.


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[carqwik]

Just an FYI, 10k in altitude doesn't always get you out of the thermal turbulence in the summertime in AZ.  And 10k is pretty much the minimum altitude going northerly out of Phoenix too if IFR.

[carusoam]

To see a really fancy M20C for sale...

Best regards,

-a-

[ragedracer1977]

43 minutes ago, carusoam said:

To see a really fancy M20C for sale...

Best regards,

-a-

Oh trust me I've been drooling over that one.  I just don't have the funds in place yet.

[ragedracer1977]

45 minutes ago, carqwik said:

Just an FYI, 10k in altitude doesn't always get you out of the thermal turbulence in the summertime in AZ.  And 10k is pretty much the minimum altitude going northerly out of Phoenix too if IFR.

I know.  I wish I could have it all.

[TTaylor]

8 hours ago, carqwik said:

Just an FYI, 10k in altitude doesn't always get you out of the thermal turbulence in the summertime in AZ.  And 10k is pretty much the minimum altitude going northerly out of Phoenix too if IFR.

The F is fine up to 14K, I fly mine fully loaded to 13.5 all the time and have climbed as high as 17.5K crossing the Sierra.  Those of us that fly the desert SW and Great Basin have learned to fly in the morning most of the time anyway during the time of year when you have thermal activity, keeps the rest of the family happy.  The F should be a great fit for your mission.

[gsxrpilot]

I had a C and flew it at 13,500 all the time. We flew in and out of KFLG, KDRO regularly, and all over the West. Having said that, it takes planning, and accommodation for high DA, weather, time of day, fuel load, etc. After a couple of years of that and with a few more $$ in my pocket, I upgraded to a turbo so I don't have to make such accommodations.

[Yetti]

How much Quality do you want to buy?

[Oldguy]

The initial purchase price is just the starting number. For the first annual, I have seen many folks reserve 5-10% of the purchase price to correct things missed on the PPI or new since then. Set aside funds similar to the way you would pay for a rental and you will find annual inspections, repairs, and upgrades are much less painful when the bills come due.

For your budget, you should be able to find what you want. Good hunting!

[gsxrpilot]

Purchase price + $5k emergency fund, 10% available during first year, and the ability to source funds equal to engine overhaul at any time.

[Yetti]

I suggest purchase price + 10K  

Hoses 1.1k

Fix Autopilot 2K

Fly it home 2-3K

Things to buy 1K

Other stuff and things 3K in reserve.

[DMJones]

When I started looking, I also had a "list of wants" but no real idea on how to get there.  So, I'm also going to recommend calling Jimmy Garrison at All American Aircraft.  He spent the better part of an hour with me going over the different models and variants, which helped me enormously in picking an aircraft.

One of the most illuminating things he shared with me: no one selling an aircraft in this day and age (internet) is selling it in the blind.  With Vref and all the various websites, everything for sale from any source is probably going to be within 5-10% of its actual value.  If you see something selling for $20k less than market value, there's a reason.  And the same is true if you see something selling for $20k more than average.  There's a reason...

Take your time and buy the seller as much as you buy the airplane.

Good luck!

[gsengle]

And you might even end up buying a plane from All American. It was a good experience for me.


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[Skates97]

1 hour ago, gsengle said:

And you might even end up buying a plane from All American. It was a good experience for me.


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I didn't buy one from them, but I did trade a number of emails back and forth with Jimmy. I can't say enough nice things about him and the advice/info he gave me. In the end while what he had was very nice, it was more than what I was looking for. If/when I decide to step up from this Mooney to another one I will be contacting Jimmy again.

[Hoeschen]

Oh trust me I've been drooling over that one.  I just don't have the funds in place yet.

Call Kevin at NAFCO 800.999.3712 low rates long terms, no payoff penalty. I don't finance toys but it can be useful in the interim between buying/selling and getting funds in place.


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[ragedracer1977]

Financing isn't really a good option for me right now.  I currently own one business and I'm in the process of starting another.  I'm trying to keep my credit as squeaky clean as possible, because if things go the way I want, I might need to borrow a million or 2 in the next 6 months.  

That, and if it goes the other way, and things don't work out, having a payment that has to be made might not be in my best interest.  Risk/Reward. 

I'm content waiting until I have cash. 

[Mcstealth]

Find an F with a Ray Jay if you really want to not worry about DA