Autopilot without gps

[PTK]

On 4/19/2017 at 7:55 PM, mike_elliott said:

That's the same one that has been lying to you about the KI300, Peter

Mike, being the nice guy I am, I gave him a second chance and a warning: I told him in no uncertain terms that if he lied to me again I'm going to hunt him down, throw him in boiling water to strip him of his feathers, sprinkle with some salt and pepper and some olive oil with lemon and oregano and throw him on the grill. Then I'll have it as an appetizer with some good wine!

[Browncbr1]

Good news. Hope it's not fake news.  

I have been holding off on a gtn650 install until I know I can get the double G5 package to go in at the same time and drive my AP. 

[jetdriven]

On 4/19/2017 at 2:33 PM, N601RX said:

If you just vfr and need something cheap to drive a autopilot buy something like a a KLN 89 and do a vfr only install. It just consist of hooking up power, gnd and coax.  These can be found for under $500. 

I've got one just came out of my plane. 

[Godfather]

Is your plane equipped to start your IFR training (vor, glideslope, dual coms or at least digital flip/flop)?  Do you normally fly longer trips when hand flying becomes a burden?

if you are going to do the install yourself with a sign off buy a less popular gps unit that is IFR enroute capable like a gx50,55,60 or Garmin 155,250,300. Look for a few months and make low ball offers.  You should be able to find a unit sub 1k and the install would be almost free if all you need is a signature.  After that wait until some of the new AP's are introduced, pull up your sleeves, and dive into another install. 

[PTK]

On 4/19/2017 at 1:37 PM, salty said:

I'm still trying to figure out my path here. My plan was to install an autopilot next, but I have no gps and I'm not clear on what capabilities I'll really have with an Ap without a panel mount gps. 

It it seems like a waas gps would serve to drive an AP as well as making adsb compliance easier. 

But, it's going to cost a fortune. My thought is that a used 430 or even 400w that I install myself (not ifr certified) might be a cheap approach that would leave me more cash for an autopilot. 

I'm thinking what I'd do in a similar dilemma. I think the first decision has to be if you're keeping this plane for the long term. If you're not then it would make more $ sense, as someone already said, to sell it and get another with the equipment installed. If you are keeping it and plan on instrument flying you have to come to terms that you'll have to bite two bullets and it's best to bite them one at a time. I think I would bite the first bullet and put in a GTN first. This way you're done with your panel driving workhorse for the long term. Then down the road bite the second one and put in an ap which will be a lot more useful to you IFR than VFR. 

No easy answer unfortunately.

[salty]

15 minutes ago, PTK said:

I'm thinking what I'd do in a similar dilemma. I think thevfirst decision has to be if you're keeping this plane for the long term. If you're not then it would make more $ sense, as someone already said, to sell it and get another with the equipment installed. If you are keeping it and plan on instrument flying you have to come to terms that you'll have to bite two bullets and it's best to bite them one at a time. I think I would bite the first bullet and put in a GTN first. This way you're done with your panel driving workhorse for the long term. Then down the road bite the second one and put in an ap which will be a lot more useful to you IFR than VFR. 

Ofcourse it always makes more $ sense to buy a plane with the equipment installed. 

No easy answer unfortunately.

So, if I do the math to get my bird to the equivalent of the one above, it would cost me within a couple amu of that asking price (including my purchase price). I'm inclined to keep this plane for awhile. The only downside of this plane for me is it's a little cramped, the wife has trouble getting in and out of it, and it's not a great sight seeing platform. Otherwise it's perfect. 

[XXX]

This looks like a pretty good deal...

https://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=search

search "S-Tec system 50 A/P including DG"

The page wouldn't paste.

plus the KLN 89b from Jet would make a nice platform for little $.

[Godfather]

1 hour ago, salty said:

So, if I do the math to get my bird to the equivalent of the one above, it would cost me within a couple amu of that asking price (including my purchase price). I'm inclined to keep this plane for awhile. The only downside of this plane for me is it's a little cramped, the wife has trouble getting in and out of it, and it's not a great sight seeing platform. Otherwise it's perfect. 

IMO the value of the bird listed is the three year old prop/engine and the higher quality interior/exterior.  Having said that a slow upgrade schedule on a plane you intend to keep awhile is a great plan. 

The garmin 335 w/ internal gps might be a good option if you want adsb. You can buy it directly from a reseller and get a $300 antenna and possibly the $500 FAA rebate. If you install that yourself the antenna and wiring will be ready for the waas gps down the road. Not a bad choice for 3k imo. 

[flight2000]

1 hour ago, salty said:

So, if I do the math to get my bird to the equivalent of the one above, it would cost me within a couple amu of that asking price (including my purchase price). I'm inclined to keep this plane for awhile. The only downside of this plane for me is it's a little cramped, the wife has trouble getting in and out of it, and it's not a great sight seeing platform. Otherwise it's perfect. 

So, it sounds like you need to be looking for a Cessna 182 or 210 based on the bold comments above (I know Mooney blasphemy...).  All of the low wing aircraft are going to be a challenge to get in with possibly the exception of the Cirrus because of the 2 doors and no yoke in the way, but you still have to step down to get in.  I like the Cessna's for one reason only: the ease of entry and exit, kinda like an SUV - slide in, slide out.  The trade off on the sightseeing visibility is the difficulty of seeing traffic above and slightly behind, just like low wing aircraft have difficulty seeing down and back. 

Every plane has trade-offs, so you have to figure out what truly is important to you - start with a simple list.  I'd say take your wife shopping with you at an airport and see which one she prefers.  Sometimes it's not what you wanted, but it'll be easier to say "Honey, want to fly somewhere for lunch today" if she's happy with the choice in the first place and totally on board with you.  If she dreads going to the airport, you'll be flying solo a lot.

It's agonizing sometimes, but don't get so far into the analysis phase that it paralyzes you from making a decision.  

Best of luck!

Cheers,

Brian 

[aviatoreb]

5 minutes ago, flight2000 said:

So, it sounds like you need to be looking for a Cessna 182 or 210 based on the bold comments above (I know Mooney blasphemy...).  All of the low wing aircraft are going to be a challenge to get in with possibly the exception of the Cirrus because of the 2 doors and no yoke in the way, but you still have to step down to get in.  I like the Cessna's for one reason only: the ease of entry and exit, kinda like an SUV - slide in, slide out.  The trade off on the sightseeing visibility is the difficulty of seeing traffic above and slightly behind, just like low wing aircraft have difficulty seeing down and back. 

Every plane has trade-offs, so you have to figure out what truly is important to you - start with a simple list.  I'd say take your wife shopping with you at an airport and see which one she prefers.  Sometimes it's not what you wanted, but it'll be easier to say "Honey, want to fly somewhere for lunch today" if she's happy with the choice in the first place and totally on board with you.  If she dreads going to the airport, you'll be flying solo a lot.

It's agonizing sometimes, but don't get so far into the analysis phase that it paralyzes you from making a decision.  

Best of luck!

Cheers,

Brian 

On those terms the Cessna 177 has the best door for easy in and out in small airplanes.

[salty]

I really don't plan on shopping for a new plane unless there's a good reason to do so. I like this one. Plus, ryoder is looking at 182/177s so that would be a nice pair for us to share. 

Edited April 23, 2017 by salty

[MyNameIsNobody]

An accu-flite (Brittain) and a heading bug DI will function with your existing PC system and give you a heading track.  Combined with an i-pad with GPS track you have a relatively inexpensive "auto-pilot" install.  

I also have a Brittain Accu-trac (GPS driven on GNC300xl) and I don't use it often.  Just no need as the bug does a nice job of tracking a heading.  Adjust bug if winds change and you are a little off course. 

If trimmed the Altitude hold is redundant.  I have it, but again NOT a "need" thing.

[MyNameIsNobody]

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

On those terms the Cessna 177 has the best door for easy in and out in small airplanes.

And best door to leak and be a sail in the wind on the ramp.

[Jerry 5TJ]

8 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

On those terms the Cessna 177 has the best door for easy in and out in small airplanes.

I bought my first Mooney from a man with bad knees and hips. He moved to a 177. 

Now, 30 years later, I begin see his point ....

[jetdriven]

15 hours ago, Godfather said:

Is your plane equipped to start your IFR training (vor, glideslope, dual coms or at least digital flip/flop)?  Do you normally fly longer trips when hand flying becomes a burden?

if you are going to do the install yourself with a sign off buy a less popular gps unit that is IFR enroute capable like a gx50,55,60 or Garmin 155,250,300. Look for a few months and make low ball offers.  You should be able to find a unit sub 1k and the install would be almost free if all you need is a signature.  After that wait until some of the new AP's are introduced, pull up your sleeves, and dive into another install. 

It's not that easy.  To make it legal to file IfR there is no enroute category.  It's either /G which is enroute and approach capability or not. To make any of these units /G takes an indicator, annunciator, etc  which makes it a 3k installation plus an indicator or basically a 5-6k event.   However, they are good for navigating enroute "ded reckoning" and steering the autopilot. 

Edited April 24, 2017 by jetdriven