King KI256 Issue

[Northern Mooniac]

Flying home today my Flight Command Indicator was showing 10 degrees down. So we could not use altitude hold, even flying with out alt hold if I pressed the down button to keep the nose down it would not do anything.

Is it time to replace the KI 256 and KI 525A with an aspen?

[Godfather]

From the reading I've done rebuilds are $2-2.5 k which is not too bad but longevity reported by pilots after a rebuild is a mixed bag. I'm nursing mine along till after osh and making a decision about replacement. 

[gsengle]

Sadly I've heard a rumor that the KI300 is dead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

Wait a minute...

The electric trim wasn't working?

There is probably a paragraph in the manual of what the indications of a trim fault are.  Some trim faults are as simple as forgetting to turn on the electric trim switch.  Mine stays on continuously.

Testing the AP will fault if the electric trim is off.

PP ideas only, not a mechanic or avionics guy.

Best regards,

-a-

Edited March 25, 2017 by carusoam

[Northern Mooniac]

The electric trim worked fine. but I couldn't use altitude hold. I was in nav/heading mode only, so I was just using the up/down buttons to control pitch. It was not turning the trim wheel but pushing the yoke in and out to control pitch.

But I could not get it to lower the nose, i think this was because the computer thought it was already 10 degrees down?

[gsengle]

The problem could be in the autopilot not the AI


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Northern Mooniac]

Not sure, If I just press the FD button on the auto pilot, the indicator rises up from the bottom and stops at 10 degrees. From startup it never comes to a level pitch even if the plane is level.

[carusoam]

Thinking out loud....

Altitude hold in the KAP and KFC systems is done by a reference line (air pressure tube) to the static system.  (Somebody mentioned this around here the other day...)

following an ILS without an FD, there are bright yellow lines that appear as the plane approaches the ILS course.  But these reference lines are a display.  The AP and the nav radio do the calculating and controlling.

I'm unsure of how the FD works.  

You can read up on how these things work.  BK includes the pilot manual on line...

Bank angle is communicated back to the AP from the attitude indicator.

Generally the BK HSI, attitude indicator, and AP are one integrated system... they are communicating continuously.

It would be hard to tell which part isn't working properly.  The AP in FD mode is supposed to follow the FD indicators.  If the FD indicators are working, the pilot is supposed to follow them by manually controlling the plane if the AP isn't working...  push the CWS button for this...  (control wheel steering)

partial thoughts of a PP only. Not an instrument technician... or CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

Edited March 25, 2017 by carusoam

[Northern Mooniac]

I tried that on the way back, no matter what i do it always shows 10 degrees down.

On the ground without the engine running when I turn on the FD only it will indicate 10 degrees down.

 

[gsengle]

Yep it's broken


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Godfather]

Off the top of my head I think the KAP AP is rate based but the KFC is attitude based.  The AI could still be showing level but a sensor on the unit could be malfunctioning. 

[Zwaustin]

Mine went belly up at one point as well. I recommend Bob at Aerolab aviation for OH of the current KI256 unit. 913-680-4169. He did mine in less than a week turn around and I was in TX. Make sure you also send the flight computer with it so they can be properly mated. 

[Northern Mooniac]

Thanks I'll give him a call!

[Northern Mooniac]

This is what is does

IMG_0680.MOV

[LANCECASPER]

9 hours ago, Zwaustin said:

Mine went belly up at one point as well. I recommend Bob at Aerolab aviation for OH of the current KI256 unit. 913-680-4169. He did mine in less than a week turn around and I was in TX. Make sure you also send the flight computer with it so they can be properly mated. 

What did it cost for an OH and an A/p alignment?

[mike_elliott]

9 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

What did it cost for an OH and an A/p alignment?

He charged $2500 for both last month

[Zwaustin]

9 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

What did it cost for an OH and an A/p alignment?

I paid $2350.00 to have the KI-256 OH'd and calibrated to the KC-295 Computer and KC-290 Controller about one year ago. 

[Northern Mooniac]

If you were to replace the HSI and Attitude with an Aspen PFD do you need to bother with any calibration? Or would that be part of the aspen install?

[carusoam]

Great time for that decision...

save The OH cost and apply it to the modern technology...

Or stay with the lower 2.5 Amu cost to OH and fly on.

Kind of a good problem to have.  If you really appreciate the amount of data the Aspen provides...

Or just a 2.5 amu pain in the butt if you have a great appreciation for staying with the Swiss Watch of an HSI...

PP thoughts only.

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Northern Mooniac]

It would be nice to have true gpss steering vs pointing the HSI at each waypoint, i've also read about many people who spend that 2500 and a year later they are doing it again...seems like a waste.

[milotron]

10 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Great time for that decision...

save The OH cost and apply it to the modern technology...

Or stay with the lower 2.5 Amu cost to OH and fly on.

Kind of a good problem to have.  If you really appreciate the amount of data the Aspen provides...

Or just a 2.5 amu pain in the butt if you have a great appreciation for staying with the Swiss Watch of an HSI...

PP thoughts only.

Best regards,

-a-

 

And possibly eliminate the vacuum pump and associated costs/risks.

If/when mine goes, I will likely go that route. Too cheap to pull the trigger until then.

 

iain

[gsengle]

What I want to know is why I'm hearing rumors that the KI300 project is dead...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

People have been going all electric for a while.

Craig, our chief MSer, pioneered the all electric movement in his Aspen instrumented J, a few years ago...

A small secondary alternator (may be) used in place of the vac pump.

Plenty of details to be checked first...  

know what you have for battery back-up.  

Check its capacity status before needing it.

PP thoughts only.  

My belt and suspenders approach includes two batteries and two vac pumps...  picture descending engine out, in bumpy IMC, relying on a TC to keep the sunny side up.  The sensation will only last for a couple of minutes... never give up. 

Best regards,

-a-

[carqwik]

I wonder if Garmin's product announcement late this week will be an "Aspen-like" product?

[gsengle]

I dream of going all electric. I'm in a FIKI Ovation, already have all the dual electrical gear. Just waiting for a good AI option...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk