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First and Second customer Mooney in for cowling mod.

Sabremech
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Bob_Belville Grand Master

Bob_Belville

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Posted
  On 9/7/2017 at 1:46 AM, aviatoreb said:

Why did Mooney stop offering retractable step on later Mooneys?

 

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Presumably to save money in manufacturing. (I do not believe it was ever "offered" as an option, in the '60s they simply changed from crank to suction and then to fixed.) 

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Sabremech
Sabremech

Installed the finished cowling today. Propeller balance tomorrow with final work on Friday to have it ready for a test flight and customer pickup on Saturday.  I have to say that I like it. Here'

Sabremech
Sabremech

I just received the e-mail I was waiting on that my Field approval will be approved by the end of this month. Now the real transformation begins.   David

Sabremech
Sabremech

I've had my first customers airplane now for a couple weeks for the cowling modification. I'm waiting on FAA field approval before I physically start the mod on the aircraft. I have all the parts in h

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aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

Posted
Posted
  On 9/7/2017 at 2:17 AM, Bob_Belville said:

Presumably to save money in manufacturing. (I do not believe it was ever "offered" as an option, in the '60s they simply changed from crank to suction and then to fixed.) 

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I wish I had it!  Sometimes I get in a mood... and think about getting mine removed.

Bob_Belville Grand Master

Bob_Belville

Posted
Posted
  On 9/7/2017 at 2:36 AM, aviatoreb said:

I wish I had it!  Sometimes I get in a mood... and think about getting mine removed.

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With the Johnson Bar Gear and the hydraulic flaps, manual cowl flaps, RAM air, and the vacuum step I think my old '66E was built in Mooney's sweet spot. (Though I do like the newer cowl and windshield.)

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jamesm Mentor

jamesm

Posted
Posted
  On 9/7/2017 at 3:16 AM, Bob_Belville said:

With the Johnson Bar Gear and the hydraulic flaps, manual cowl flaps, RAM air, and the vacuum step I think my old '66E was built in Mooney's sweet spot. (Though I do like the newer cowl and windshield.)

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The only missing would be a Stick as oppose to a yoke.  you get rid of a lot mickey mouse linkage above nose wheel well. make ot more  like the M20T Mooney Predator

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Bob_Belville Grand Master

Bob_Belville

Posted
Posted
  On 9/8/2017 at 12:54 PM, Sabremech said:

Hmmm, how did we go from a cowling mod thread to talking about retractable or fixed steps? 

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I suppose we just vamping until we get a notice that you have some more "after" data to report and that you're ready for the next patient. (For planning, I have one trip planned after Summit and would not want to drop off my E until after about October 15.)

jamesm Mentor

jamesm

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hum .... I wonder if  the person with a "Modern Mooney" Rocket/K model Mooney was just  "asking for a friend":P  who also has high CHT  temps on take off  and has ugly   "guppy mouth"   engine cowl opening  on their  "Modern" :blink: Mooney as well  while gaining  more speed.   So they probably  figured that David's Cowl Mod is so good that .... If David  can do this awesome  engine cowl mods on "Vintage Model Mooney's (pre-J Models)" ..... just wait see his  retractable step mod  on a modern Mooney's. It  would be a walk in a park. :D   or maybe just posted in the wrong thread. Helping you David with your spare time  just in case you were bored need more stuff to do. :o   

Disclaimer: to be clear the Cynicism/ Sarcasm nature tone  of my  post was NOT direct  at  David or his Cowl Mod.

On a more  serious note: the Cowl mod reference  it's gratitude that their someone out  there willing help out us our  CHT issues.  However  (stating the obvious) the adjectives  use to describe the cowl mod was my cheap attempt to "suck up"  so that I can get in the cue /line for the cowl mod potentially in the future.

 

Edited by jamesm
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Sabremech Veteran

Sabremech

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Posted
  On 9/19/2017 at 12:44 PM, Bob_Belville said:

Matt's air filter goes inside, I guess the oil cooler goes to the rear via the LASAR STC or is that part of your field approval, @Sabremech? (Mine is already relocated.)

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Matt has decided to keep the oil cooler in the stock location. Lot's of other maintenance going on at the same time as the cowling mod and relocating the oil cooler would just ad more to the cost. I have two different lower cowling skins depending on the location of the cooler. 

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Marauder Grand Master

Marauder

Posted
Posted
  On 9/19/2017 at 3:22 PM, Sabremech said:

Matt has decided to keep the oil cooler in the stock location. Lot's of other maintenance going on at the same time as the cowling mod and relocating the oil cooler would just ad more to the cost. I have two different lower cowling skins depending on the location of the cooler. 

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Is relocating the oil cooler an option at the upgrade or is that something that needs to be done before the upgrade is performed?

 

  On 9/19/2017 at 12:44 PM, Bob_Belville said:

Matt's air filter goes inside, I guess the oil cooler goes to the rear via the LASAR STC or is that part of your field approval, @Sabremech? (Mine is already relocated.)

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Bob -- you have the relocated cooler. I thought you mentioned at one time you were running fairly warm on the cooler. My temps are fairly reasonable (high 180s to 190s but never over 200).

Bob_Belville Grand Master

Bob_Belville

Posted
Posted
  On 9/19/2017 at 3:48 PM, Marauder said:

Bob -- you have the relocated cooler. I thought you mentioned at one time you were running fairly warm on the cooler. My temps are fairly reasonable (high 180s to 190s but never over 200).

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Yeah, my oil temps have gotten higher than I like again. They used to go over 210 in climb and were close to 200 in cruise. I checked and did about everything to little avail. Then for about a year ago the temps were perhaps 15 degrees lower for no apparent reason. I do not think the CHTs, which I deem much more important, correlate very well. Now, starting with formation flying and our trip to KOSH the oil temps are back up. go figure. I emphasize that CHTs are fine.

For all the Sherlock Holmes who live here we've:

  • checked and modified baffles and baffle seals including the baffling below the cylinders which had a broken rod at one time. (the port cylinders run 35 degrees cooler than the starboard even though the oil cooler is on that side of the engine. (David's baffling that fits the alternator and starter much better than mine might result in higher pressure air above the engine and in front of the cooler which ought to help.)
  • the oil cooler was inspected and clean by Pacific. They confirmed that the Vernatherm at the same time
  • the oil filter adapter which includes the seat that the vernatherm closes against was removed and the seat was machined by the engine shop/
  • the cowl flaps are adjusted to be 1/2" open when in the closed position. The cowl flap position does affect CHT and OT in cruise. 

I've quit tweaking for now since David's cowl with change everything.

This flight was several practice approaches...

image.thumb.png.d412fd1b64209b82cf184f4151cfc59f.png 

 

Marauder Grand Master

Marauder

Posted
Posted
  On 9/19/2017 at 5:41 PM, Bob_Belville said:
Yeah, my oil temps have gotten higher than I like again. They used to go over 210 in climb and were close to 200 in cruise. I checked and did about everything to little avail. Then for about a year ago the temps were perhaps 15 degrees lower for no apparent reason. I do not think the CHTs, which I deem much more important, correlate very well. Now, starting with formation flying and our trip to KOSH the oil temps are back up. go figure. I emphasize that CHTs are fine.
For all the Sherlock Holmes who live here we've:
  • checked and modified baffles and baffle seals including the baffling below the cylinders which had a broken rod at one time. (the port cylinders run 35 degrees cooler than the starboard even though the oil cooler is on that side of the engine. (David's baffling that fits the alternator and starter much better than mine might result in higher pressure air above the engine and in front of the cooler which ought to help.)
  • the oil cooler was inspected and clean by Pacific. They confirmed that the Vernatherm at the same time
  • the oil filter adapter which includes the seat that the vernatherm closes against was removed and the seat was machined by the engine shop/
  • the cowl flaps are adjusted to be 1/2" open when in the closed position. The cowl flap position does affect CHT and OT in cruise. 
I've quit tweaking for now since David's cowl with change everything.
This flight was several practice approaches...
image.thumb.png.8c5924fa1c3c2b83d1e8f9a043b957dd.png


Bob -- was this a development or something that was always present since you purchased your E?

I'm curious if anyone has "before" and "after" data for the relocation. To squeak out the most speed for David's mod, I am entertaining the cooler relocation as long as it doesn't introduce another issue.


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Marauder Grand Master

Marauder

Posted
Posted
  On 9/19/2017 at 11:57 AM, Sabremech said:
Does this mean you'll need CPR too? 

 

Nah! I saw the quality of your workmanship firsthand. And as a 26 year owner, I have seen everything and am ready for any surprise.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

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Sabremech Veteran

Sabremech

Posted
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Posted
  On 9/19/2017 at 3:48 PM, Marauder said:
  On 9/19/2017 at 3:22 PM, Sabremech said:

 

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Is relocating the oil cooler an option at the upgrade or is that something that needs to be done before the upgrade is performed?

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It would be easier on me if you did this before the cowling mod. I'd like to get them done quicker and am working on my processes to reduce the turn time and associated cost. I'd like to limit my work to just the cowling mod itself.

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Bob_Belville Grand Master

Bob_Belville

Posted
Posted
  On 9/19/2017 at 5:51 PM, Marauder said:

Bob -- was this a development or something that was always present since you purchased your E?

I'm curious if anyone has "before" and "after" data for the relocation. To squeak out the most speed for David's mod, I am entertaining the cooler relocation as long as it doesn't introduce another issue.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

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Can't help with the before data, the cooler was relocated 20 years ago by a PO. But I'm not so sure I really should be worried, the oil temp pickup is in the rear, right in front of the cooler, I think(?) and would be the hottest sample point. Some oil temp pickups on in the front of the engine. Perhaps  @M20Doc or @kortopates or someone who can quantify the typical delta t for different pickup taps.

HRM Grand Master

HRM

Posted
Posted
  On 9/7/2017 at 3:16 AM, Bob_Belville said:

With the Johnson Bar Gear and the hydraulic flaps, manual cowl flaps, RAM air, and the vacuum step I think my old '66E was built in Mooney's sweet spot. (Though I do like the newer cowl and windshield.)

Expand  

I have the same feeling, but I will add the swept "Buck Rodgers" antennae to the list.

Frankly, how do you judge a landing without the retractable step? So easy: good landing, step is there; bad landing, you are going to have to jump off the wing.

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