Seat rollers.

[laytonl]

If you manufacture your own, make sure you order delrin.  Aactal and delrin product names can be confusing.  Delrin is a homo-polymer; some forms of acetal are a co-polymer.  Lee

[N201MKTurbo]

Or a crazy taught, you could make the new ones out of phenolic. I know it only lasts 50 years before it is garbage, but that isn’t bad. Phenolic costs almost twice as much as Delrin, but it might be worth it., 

[Yetti]

On 1/15/2024 at 5:53 AM, Hank said:

Good Lord, @Bob E! Two seats worth of ready-to-use spacers is less than a foot of delrin rod! Gotta love MS, now I don't need to rummage around for delrin scrap, drill and cut them to length. Thanks!

I found that putting a hole in the exact middle of the rod to be quite challenging.   The plastic likes to grab the bit and take it off center.   I ended up with a square jig in a vise to hold the round rod.

I have kind of moved on and now building a 300 gallon water tank from HDPE sheets for a HMMWV fire truck.

Edited January 16 by Yetti

[IvanP]

LASAR has seat rollers in stock. Just ordered set of 8 for my plane. 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

I found that putting a hole in the exact middle of the rod to be quite challenging.   The plastic likes to grab the bit and take it off center.   I ended up with a square jig in a vise to hold the round rod.

Start your holes with a center drill. They work wonders!

[N201MKTurbo]

47 minutes ago, Hank said:

Start your holes with a center drill. They work wonders!

I was taught recently how to adjust the tail stock on a lathe. Chuck a piece of flexible plastic rod between the chuck and the tail stock. Put an indicator on the carriage and indicate the length of the rod on the top and front. Do it with the tail stock at the extended and retracted position.

[outermarker]

Lasar's part number for the seat roller.  SEAT ROLLER - 140004-000*

https://lasar.com/interior-hardware/seat-roller

SEAT ROLLER - 140004-000* — LASAR

[Ragsf15e]

53 minutes ago, outermarker said:

Lasar's part number for the seat roller.  SEAT ROLLER - 140004-000*

https://lasar.com/interior-hardware/seat-roller

SEAT ROLLER - 140004-000* — LASAR

Ha! They must be reading this thread and knowing we needed some.  I had checked last week and they had no stock.

[Ragsf15e]

Well the plastics “machine shop” didn’t pan out.  $260 for 10 of them in Delrin.  I cancelled that plan.  Bought the newly stocked lasar ones and the nylon grainger ones.  Ill post a comparison when I put them in.  You guys think nylon rollers will last ok?

[MikeOH]

7 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Well the plastics “machine shop” didn’t pan out.  $260 for 10 of them in Delrin.  I cancelled that plan.  Bought the newly stocked lasar ones and the nylon grainger ones.  Ill post a comparison when I put them in.  You guys think nylon rollers will last ok?

Good decision!

I actually don't think the $260 is unreasonable for a 10 piece 'run'. By the time the machinist looks at the requirements/sketch, pulls stock, sets up, and runs 10 pieces, checks dimensions, cleans up, packages the parts for shipment, I'm thinking an hour, easy...order processing/paperwork...plus some for OH (bldg lease, insurance, utilities, etc). We pay $100 to $150 for an A&P.

[DCarlton]

I’ve had a new set of seat rollers in a bag in the garage for several years.  After six pages of discussion, I’m thinking I should prioritize getting these valued assets installed.  Might just install fresh floor carpet too…

[A64Pilot]

I’m 99% sure my originals were phenolic, if you look at the Pic you can see they are silver colored, that’s of course aluminum from the rails, how much wear do they cause? I have no idea but as hard as those rails are to change any is too much. The one on the right is a Cessna roller, not sure why I put that in there it wasn’t installed in the airplane

I think Delrin or Nylon won’t cause any wear, unless maybe they get sand embedded in them?

 

[A64Pilot]

Not that my opinion means much but if anyone starts worrying about PMA, OPP etc, but as an IA my opinion is this is a standard part like a wire butt splice or terminal for instance and as such doesn’t require PMA etc.

Again just my opinion but I can’t imagine a FSDO inspector being concerned about a Grainger sourced seat roller

[Pinecone]

8 hours ago, DCarlton said:

I’ve had a new set of seat rollers in a bag in the garage for several years.  After six pages of discussion, I’m thinking I should prioritize getting these valued assets installed.  Might just install fresh floor carpet too…

Putting in new rollers made moving the seat SO smooth.

As I mentioned, the first time I slid the seat back to get out, I thought I was going to end up in the baggage compartment there so much less friction.

[JimC67]

I swapped my old rollers for the phenolic ones from LASAR and the difference is night and day. Easy upgrade on my B, and the result is worth the effort

[Yetti]

On 1/16/2024 at 11:54 AM, Hank said:

Start your holes with a center drill. They work wonders!

I have center drills.  It has more to do with centering in the chuck and the rod not staying square to the chuck for the part that is not in the chuck.   I found it better to cut to length on table saw and then put in a jig, then drill.

[PT20J]

Lots of reports of seats rolling easier after replacing rollers. Also, I think if the rollers roll better there would reasonably be less wear on the rails.

FWIW, I got the same effect by putting a drop of oil on each one. I’d try that first; it’s easier and cheaper than replacing the rollers and if it doesn’t improve operation, you can still replace them. 

[A64Pilot]

3 hours ago, PT20J said:

Lots of reports of seats rolling easier after replacing rollers. Also, I think if the rollers roll better there would reasonably be less wear on the rails.

FWIW, I got the same effect by putting a drop of oil on each one. I’d try that first; it’s easier and cheaper than replacing the rollers and if it doesn’t improve operation, you can still replace them. 

At least on the Cessna what happens is the rollers wear down and eventually the seat frame drags making the seat hard to move and of course wearing those rails. I think my rollers were close and my airframe is 41 years old but just over 2000 TT.

A Cessna you have to move the seat a whole lot more to get out, in a normal flying position in the 210 my hip was pretty much in front of the front edge of the door frame, this gave a whole lot of room for the back seat passengers to get out but for the front seat people to get out the seats had to slide very far aft and maybe that wears their rollers faster? Seats a lot taller too maybe the leverage does?

Of course Cessna has had the AD forever and we don’t, perhaps it’s because a Cessna seat can slide much further aft?

Oil could attract sand and sand of course with oil makes a great grinding paste.

This stuff is slick as snot as it’s teflon powder in a carrier that quickly flashes off its completely dry

 

[Ragsf15e]

For future MSers, buy the Lasar ones if possible.  The Grainger ones mentioned above would need a bushing as the hole is definitely too big to fit properly.  Otherwise, their dimensions are good.  Paying to get delrin machined was expensive too unless you can do it yourself.  Picture below of the Lasar roller and Grainger center hole difference.

[Bob E]

Ragsf15e:  YOU ARE RIGHT!   Thanks for this.  My profuse apologies to everyone who bought the Grainger rollers and noticed that they're too loose -- I totally forgot that I also used bushings!  Here are the bushings. I don't have the receipt but I may have gotten them from Home Depot.  The cost was negligible.  NOTE:  You have to cut the bushing in half:

[Ragsf15e]

28 minutes ago, Bob E said:

Ragsf15e:  YOU ARE RIGHT!   Thanks for this.  My profuse apologies to everyone who bought the Grainger rollers and noticed that they're too loose -- I totally forgot that I also used bushings!  Here are the bushings. I don't have the receipt but I may have gotten them from Home Depot.  The cost was negligible.  NOTE:  You have to cut the bushing in half:

No problem!  The price was certainly right and I didn’t mind checking them out!  Good info on the bushings.

[Echo]

1 hour ago, Bob E said:

Ragsf15e:  YOU ARE RIGHT!   Thanks for this.  My profuse apologies to everyone who bought the Grainger rollers and noticed that they're too loose -- I totally forgot that I also used bushings!  Here are the bushings. I don't have the receipt but I may have gotten them from Home Depot.  The cost was negligible.  NOTE:  You have to cut the bushing in half:

Bought the bag from Grainger.  Thanks!  The sleeves were not available, but found same dimension BUT 1/2 inch with a flange.  Do you think this will work or will the flange need to be cut off?  I figured it could be on bolt head side, but maybe that will NOT allow it to fit without cutting off.  Minimal expense for a NICE upgrade!  Laser would NOT allow me to increase cart beyond 1 item so likely back ordered?  I am in it for $45 bucks total with bag of bushings and eight bronze inserts.  Thanks again.  Scott

[Bob E]

10 minutes ago, Echo said:

Bought the bag from Grainger.  Thanks!  The sleeves were not available, but found same dimension BUT 1/2 inch with a flange.  Do you think this will work or will the flange need to be cut off?  I figured it could be on bolt head side, but maybe that will NOT allow it to fit without cutting off.  Minimal expense for a NICE upgrade!  Laser would NOT allow me to increase cart beyond 1 item so likely back ordered?  I am in it for $45 bucks total with bag of bushings and eight bronze inserts.  Thanks again.  Scott

I think you'd have to cut off the flange -- there's no play between the sides of the roller and the seat frame holding the roller axle.

[outermarker]

Bushings can’t be bought in the correct length? This should work and you save shipping by buying both at the same time.

 

Grangier p/n 3ZM99

Edited January 25 by outermarker
Included part number

[Echo]

10 minutes ago, outermarker said:

Bushings can’t be bought in the correct length? 

I don't know.  You tell me...I found an easy solution.  Sawing brass is easy peazy...Byron says buy the $80 dollar Laser rollers...I tried and they are NOT available.  Unacceptable to me.  If  you don't stock...YOU LOSE my business.  A solution that is as good for (when shipping is applied) is OVER 50% less expensive is a CB win baby.  Next...