Hoping for some guidance

[jukelemon]

Hi all.

New to the forum but have been a lurker for some time.

I know this has been gone over many moons before but I wanted to get some recent/real time feedback from Pre J owners.

First off, I am a slightly over 100 hr new PPL. Currently own a Cherokee 180D and love it. Minus the speed, or lack thereof, it is a great plane.

I really want to get a Mooney and it fits well for my needs-90% single, 5% with passenger and 5% with more than 2.

To be candid, I can buy a 201 i.e. have a budget for it but I dont see a huge difference between say an F or a J. A J is faster, sure. But does an extra 20k justify it? I am not sure I am convinced.

I keep hearing about corrosion ADs on the pre Js and other prop ADs. What is the real world reality on these?

I understand that a prebuy is necessary. That goes without saying. Are there significant pitfalls for each model?

I just dont understand why someone would tell me never buy a pre J when I hear such good things about them-especially those with mods that seem to cover what the 201 turned into.

So, please justify an F for someone who doesnt mind a slightly less TAS

Thanks all.

 

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Juke.

The J got many aerodynamic changes over the F.  Later Js got even more.

Gross weight changed a few times.  It will be helpful to know what it is for the airframe you intend to buy.

An F has a lot going for it.  But all of the improvements retain their value.  So newer mid Body planes cost a few AMU more than older ones...  each plane has it's own history that will make comparing individuals worthwhile....

'worth it' is a continuous debate.  Only you will know if it is worth it to you.  Worth it to somebody else really matters when you are a seller.

Best regards,

-a-

[cctsurf]

Just a thought, if you're looking at that breakdown of flight time 90% single, 5% with a passenger and an additional 5% with more than just one passenger, you might look at a C or an E model, you can probably get one with a really nice panel for far less than an F or especially a J model.

The best upgrade an F has over a J model is the Johnson Bar.  I can think of at least one Mooneyspace member who has upgraded his F model to J specs, but retains that Johnson bar.

As to corrosion issues, make certain that it is clean pre-buy and then hangar or make certain it doesn't get wet.  Where is the plane you are considering from?  If it was near an ocean, it needs specific examination.  If it has been consistently hangared, it is much safer, 'though that is not always a silver bullet.

 

[jukelemon]

Thanks all.

Keep it coming

As far as location, I am willing to go to where the best plane lives. But good points on the ocean. Thanks.

Still wondering why someone would say to stay away from the pre Js. Are they that different as far as ADs and/or maint?

[carusoam]

People are still in love with their M20As, Bs, Cs, Ds.....

Don't get side tracked by what other people think is good.  

Good for one may not match good for another.

Available aviation funds for one person can be completely different than the next.

There are some pretty wealthy people that have very little aviation funds.

There are some pretty large aviation funds in the hands of some pretty young Mooney pilots.

There are some pilots that flying is in their life. And others where flying Is their life.

Is flying a significant part of your life?

In y2k, I stayed away from Es and Fs...  an E cost 10 Amu more than a C.  The F cost 10 AMu more than the E.  A J was lightyears away from affordability...

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, jukelemon said:

Thanks all.

Keep it coming

As far as location, I am willing to go to where the best plane lives. But good points on the ocean. Thanks.

Still wondering why someone would say to stay away from the pre Js. Are they that different as far as ADs and/or maint?

I've owned two E models, my last one had every speed mod out there and would out run any J I came across.  Any of the older airplane warrant a very detailed PPI to avoid surprises.  I would not shy away from a pre J if it suits your mission.  The manual gear and manual flaps are the ultimate in simplicity.

Earlier Hartzell props have a recurring AD to check the hub for cracking, a B suffix hub corrects the problem.

Clarence 

[mooniac15u]

There are some who don't like the lower gear speeds on the pre-J models.

[cctsurf]

With regard to the Prop AD, depending on how much you fly in a year, you may only have to have it checked at annual (every 100 hours).  The work for the AD is quite minimal and the replacement of the hub comparatively expensive.  OTOH, you may well want to look for a plane with the upgraded hub and avoid the fun all together.

As I have read Mooneyspace, unless you are an a&p (or have one who will work with you), you usually are money ahead looking for a plane with the upgrades you are interested in rather than expecting to save money and do those upgrades yourself.

Some of us like the lower gear speeds on the pre-J models because they force you to make that a high priority in approaching the pattern, lowering the probability of a gear-up landing...  I don't have statistics to support that assertion, but that's how I feel.

[mooniac15u]

11 minutes ago, cctsurf said:

Some of us like the lower gear speeds on the pre-J models because they force you to make that a high priority in approaching the pattern, lowering the probability of a gear-up landing...  I don't have statistics to support that assertion, but that's how I feel.

It's more of an issue for IFR than regular VFR pattern entry.

 

[jukelemon]

Thanks all.

I would say a 100 hr/year is realistic.

The Prop AD makes sense. Thanks.

I am quite hands on with the Cherokee i.e. owner assisted annuals and everything else I can do. I am far from a hands off owner and have an AP I work closely with right now.

Do you all tend to buy from one another when able i.e. on this forum?

Does anyone know of a good E or F for sale?

Thanks again for your time.

[mooniac15u]

Something else to look for on a PPI for a vintage Mooney:

 

 

[Marauder]

Thanks all.

I would say a 100 hr/year is realistic.

The Prop AD makes sense. Thanks.

I am quite hands on with the Cherokee i.e. owner assisted annuals and everything else I can do. I am far from a hands off owner and have an AP I work closely with right now.

Do you all tend to buy from one another when able i.e. on this forum?

Does anyone know of a good E or F for sale?

Thanks again for your time.

You will find that a number of E and F models have been modified with various speed mods. My 75F will run with early J models.

Also, the Johnson bar models are found on earlier models (1960s vintage). Later models like mine have electric gear.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

Buying from a known MS owner makes things go smoother.  There is an active part of this community numbered in thousands.  They make their plane available for sale.  And stand by to answer each and every question that comes their way... the information grows over time with more pictures and details.  It is really interesting when you see an airplane change hands between two people you know... some longtime Mooney owners move out to different missions and their plane stays here at MS....

You can get to know many of the Mooney community at each fly-in you go to.

MS is like a giant fly-in.  Some like to visit, some like to hang-out, some don't want to leave...  some only visit when they have tough questions that need answers.  Some only read, and never post....

There are smaller parts of the community in each corner of the country/world.  Some groups are active formation flyers.  Some like a good lunch on the east coast.  There is a group of flyers that meet monthly in Fla.  

what brings them all together...   speed and efficiency.  Some more for speed, others more for efficiency....

Best regards,

-a-

 

[jukelemon]

Good to know. Thank you.

I looked in the classifieds...didn't see too many Fs for sale. I suppose it ebbs and flows as far as For Sale volume.

[bonal]

For me the manual gear flaps and trim were primary drivers also like the short body same reason I don't drive and SUV. I guess the price point would be important since your PAX looks ok for a short body. If you can only afford a low end J then you would be better off getting a fantastic E or F or an incredible C.  I also prefer the simplicity of my carburetor. I know I am slower at a 145 knot TAS but can fly 600 miles with an hour reserve and that's longer than I want to go without a leg stretch and pee break. 

On the other hand if you can afford a nice J they really are the best of the models for all around usefulness. I just prefer the mechanical systems over the electric ones. Welcome to Mooney space 

[TTaylor]

I have owned both a C and an F.  I liked my C, but love the F.  I own the F because it cost less than half of a similarly equipped J.  I have a 75 so electric gear and flaps, I actually like both but that can be sacrilege here .   No reason not to consider earlier Mooney's just be sure to be cautious during the purchase, but you would do that with any airplane.  Spar corrosion seems to be more of an issue in some of the early 60's models.  Watch the 62 to 65 C and E's very carefully for that.   Airframe corrosion is an issue in those that have sat out for long periods.  

My F is very basic but I just finished a round trip to California yesterday when no other planes were flying. It hauled three of us plus our 103 pound golden pyrenees non-stop each way for 500 nm with a 13,000 ft climb to cross the Sierra's.  I love the IO engine and the extra capability in the west.   I cruise at about 139 kts at 9 gph in a very stock, other than three blade prop model.

Good luck finding a Mooney, you will love it.

[Yetti]

there is another rumor out there that Mooney's are small to fit in.   I am 6'9".  I enjoy my F very much

[DXB]

On 12/30/2016 at 1:02 PM, jukelemon said:

Hi all.

New to the forum but have been a lurker for some time.

I know this has been gone over many moons before but I wanted to get some recent/real time feedback from Pre J owners.

First off, I am a slightly over 100 hr new PPL. Currently own a Cherokee 180D and love it. Minus the speed, or lack thereof, it is a great plane.

I really want to get a Mooney and it fits well for my needs-90% single, 5% with passenger and 5% with more than 2.

To be candid, I can buy a 201 i.e. have a budget for it but I dont see a huge difference between say an F or a J. A J is faster, sure. But does an extra 20k justify it? I am not sure I am convinced.

I keep hearing about corrosion ADs on the pre Js and other prop ADs. What is the real world reality on these?

I understand that a prebuy is necessary. That goes without saying. Are there significant pitfalls for each model?

I just dont understand why someone would tell me never buy a pre J when I hear such good things about them-especially those with mods that seem to cover what the 201 turned into.

So, please justify an F for someone who doesnt mind a slightly less TAS

Thanks all.

 

I bought a '68 M20C 2 years ago under the exact circumstances you describe.  Buying the lower cost pre Js can give you spectacular value for the performance. Only  tradeoff is less $ return on any upgrades you make if you ever sell it.  Corrosion? Buy a clean one that checks out on an expert prebuy - no biggie.  If you go newer than '68, you trade the Johnson bar and hydraulic flaps for electric.  I love my '68 vintage plane. Though I could have afforded a nice J, if I had it to do over again, I would get an F with a Johnson bar, mod it up to J standards, and keep it forever.  But since you'll be flying solo, do not discount the spectacular value of the vintage short bodies!

[jukelemon]

8 minutes ago, DXB said:

I bought a '68 M20C 2 years ago under the exact circumstances you describe.  Buying the lower cost pre Js can give you spectacular value for the performance. Only  tradeoff is less $ return on any upgrades you make if you ever sell it.  Corrosion? Buy a clean one that checks out on an expert prebuy - no biggie.  If you go newer than '68, you trade the Johnson bar and hydraulic flaps for electric.  I love my '68 vintage plane. Though I could have afforded a nice J, if I had it to do over again, I would get an F with a Johnson bar, mod it up to J standards, and keep it forever.  But since you'll be flying solo, do not discount the spectacular value of the vintage short bodies!

Thank you.

I see a lot of people using Maxwell for prebuys. Maybe a stupid question but...is there a travelling service?

[bonal]

Traveling services are sometimes offered up by the great folks here on Mooney space. Nothing beats an excuse to fly and show off your Mooney

[rbridges]

I love my C, but if I could snap my fingers and turn it into a J, I'd do it.  I like the looks of the slightly longer fuselage.  I think the J is the best overall value in the mooney lineup, but I would take a really nice F over a mediocre J.  

[jukelemon]

13 minutes ago, bonal said:

Traveling services are sometimes offered up by the great folks here on Mooney space. Nothing beats an excuse to fly and show off your Mooney

Makes sense. Anybody around KLOU that wants to do just that?

Thanks

[carusoam]

Juke,

it would help if you update your avatar info.

where you are, what you are looking for, that kind of thing....

Best regards,

-a-

[jukelemon]

5 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Juke,

it would help if you update your avatar info.

where you are, what you are looking for, that kind of thing....

Best regards,

-a-

Will do. Thanks

[Browncbr1]

With only 5% of your time having more than 2 pax, I would definitely get an E or a nicely built RV-8.