Panel Upgrade...

[gsxrpilot]

I'm sitting in the terminal at SFO waiting on the connecting flight home. I've been in Korea all week but UPS tells me a stack of boxes has been delivered to the hangar.

Over the next couple of months, I hope to get an all new panel done in my 252.

Going In:
Aspen E1000 Pro, EA100 autopilot adaptor, Avidyne IFD540, AXP322 Remote Transponder, SkyTrax100 ADSB In, PMA450a audio panel, JPI EDM-900.

Coming Out:
KNS 80, GNS 530W, KR 87 ADF, KT76a transponder, WX-10a strike finder, KI-525a HSI, GMA340, JPI EDM-700, Turn coordinator, all engine instruments.

According to Southwest Texas Aviation, the JPI install is already in progress. I hope to get the IFD540 and the PMA450a installed over the weekend as they're both just plug and play. The rest of the work will take a bit more time and will require a new left side panel to be cut.

The last piece still under research is what to do about an electric standby AI.

[Bob_Belville]

Nice.

[kortopates]

Nice Paul. I am doing pretty much the same with G500 & GTN's, GTX and also doing the EDM-900 w/ CIES senders.

You could also do the WX-500 if you find the spheric's sensor valuable while ditching the WX-10.
It's going to be a nice Mooney XMAS for us both!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cnoe]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

 UPS tells me a stack of boxes has been delivered to the hangar.

 

So... did they by chance leave the boxes stacked up by the door of your hangar like they do with my home deliveries?

I could be there in less than 60 minutes flight time which would make yours a very SAD Christmas instead. 

Sounds awesome Paul but you still aren't allowed to use the AP on formation flights!

 

[gsxrpilot]

Yep just to make sure that didn't happen, it was all shipped to the Southwest Texas Aviation hangar where Laura has signed for them and ensured the safe keeping.

[Avionics Source]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

Going In:
 Avidyne IFD540, AXP322 Remote Transponder, SkyTrax100 ADSB In, PMA450a audio panel

Thanks for shopping Paul! You should buy another Mooney so we can do it all over again 

[gsxrpilot]

Thanks for shopping Paul! You should buy another Mooney so we can do it all over again 

I might not be done with this one.

[Txbyker]

Paul, I was there yesterday and think I used one of your boxes as a backing to sign a check.  You are going to have a super panel.  Hope you post some pics.

Russ

[gsxrpilot]

So I have the Aspen E1000Pro PFD. I'm definitely cutting a new panel so that I can get everything laid out correctly and the Aspen panel as well as the JPI EDM900 recessed into the panel.

The question is should I try and spring for an Aspen MFD as well? I'd love to hear from any of you flying with a single Aspen panel as to whether you ever wished you had the second panel?

I really don't want to cut the panel and go through the whole installation twice.  I realize that the second Aspen will allow me to remove the ASI and Altimeter, but I'm not sure that's enough reason to spend the money on the second panel.

Update... I have the KFC150 autopilot with Altitude Preselect. That requires the KAS297B and encoding Altimeter. I don't think the Aspen has the AltPreselect for the KFC150. If that's the case, then I have to keep the altimeter and there's really no reason to get the second panel.

Thoughts and opinions welcome...

[Bob_Belville]

12 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

So I have the Aspen E1000Pro PFD. I'm definitely cutting a new panel so that I can get everything laid out correctly and the Aspen panel as well as the JPI EDM900 recessed into the panel.

The question is should I try and spring for an Aspen MFD as well? I'd love to hear from any of you flying with a single Aspen panel as to whether you ever wished you had the second panel?

I really don't want to cut the panel and go through the whole installation twice.  I realize that the second Aspen will allow me to remove the ASI and Altimeter, but I'm not sure that's enough reason to spend the money on the second panel.

Update... I have the KFC150 autopilot with Altitude Preselect. That requires the KAS297B and encoding Altimeter. I don't think the Aspen has the AltPreselect for the KFC150. If that's the case, then I have to keep the altimeter and there's really no reason to get the second panel.

Thoughts and opinions welcome...

Paul, I considered the MFD when I did my panel and I've thought about it since but I can't justify it in my mind. Not only the cost but since I have 3 moving maps - GTN 750, GPS 696, and Garmin Pilot on a tablet, I'm not sure it would add much at all. And I find that after 4 years flying this panel I still look at both the ASI and the altimeter "steam gauges" sometimes. 

[Cruiser]

will any of those other displays put the instrument approach plate with your planes position on the display directly in front of you and in your primary instrument scan? Eliminating head bobs and weaves i.e. vertigo?

If anything happens to the PFD, can any of the other displays, with a single button push, revert to a complete backup AI and HSI with the navdata already loaded and displayed to continue the flight?

[carusoam]

Aviation has allowed me to study the law of diminishing returns...

A one panel Aspen is pretty powerful... nav, air data, traffic...

A second Aspen is nice, but it would only be looked at when I'm not looking at the first one... back-up and nav data... full scale nav plates

A third Aspen would be digitizing things that have been digitized already on another screen... like a GTN... weather

 

Now, if Marauder was good this year, I think he could get that next Aspen put in place before New Years...

If nothing else synthetic vision, dynamic glide distance rings, the blue circle that represents glide path based on total energy and its rate of dissipation, and an AOA, all naturally  belong on the third screen.  Call it the get me down safely out of IMC screen.

There is one situation that the returns wouldn't be so diminishing...

 

I am looking forward to the first color screen to be installed.... I would fear the ones that show up quickly after that... 

 

Best regards,

-a-

[gsxrpilot]

Actually yes.  I'm installing the IFD540.  With that I'll also have the IFD100 which mirrors the 540 display on my iPad mounted on the yoke. That's why I'm thinking along the lines Bob is. I don't know how many moving map displays I need.  And if the IFD fails, I can revert to ForeFlight which also has the geolocated IFR plates.

I'll have to check with Aspen to see if the PFD will be able to handle the altitude pre-select without the altitude encoding altimeter I have now.  If not and I have to keep the altimeter, the MFD is definitely out.

 

[Bob_Belville]

9 hours ago, Cruiser said:

will any of those other displays put the instrument approach plate with your planes position on the display directly in front of you and in your primary instrument scan? Eliminating head bobs and weaves i.e. vertigo?

If anything happens to the PFD, can any of the other displays, with a single button push, revert to a complete backup AI and HSI with the navdata already loaded and displayed to continue the flight?

I have approach plates on 3 devices now. GTN 750, GPS 696, Garmin Pilot on tablet. 

I have a backup ASI and AI already there with no action to take in the case the Aspen dies. I would lose GPSS and if it were IMC, I'd have to fly an approach by hand though I would have the autopilot. 

 

[Marauder]

I absolutely love the MFD and couldn't imagine being without it. When I get the ADS-B update, traffic and weather will be on the MFD along with current StormScope input. In addition, you will be able to pull all pertinent information about the airspace right from the MFD.

I have an unedited video on the MFD I haven't posted on my YouTube channel. I will upload it today and you can see some of the additional features.

My only regret is I did get the extended battery option. It would have allowed me to remove the ASI and altimeter. I was so entrenched in the steam gauge mentality, I thought I would always rely on them. No so...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[gsxrpilot]

I'll look for the video. I've watched all of yours and look forward to this one.  Thanks.

[ArtVandelay]

How does Aspen PFD,MFD combo compare with Garmin G500? 

Garmins price is lower, only $14K, and screens are bigger?

[gsxrpilot]

26 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

How does Aspen PFD,MFD combo compare with Garmin G500? 

Garmins price is lower, only $14K, and screens are bigger?

Don't confuse me! ;-)

I assume that's a street price on the G500? They list it at $16K. In all seriousness, it's a consideration. 

[ArtVandelay]

9 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Don't confuse me! ;-)

I assume that's a street price on the G500? They list it at $16K. In all seriousness, it's a consideration. 

Yes, minus the synthetic vision. Might be a cheaper install, the Aspen requires it's own GPS antenna, I would imagine Garmin doesn't as long as you have a GTN, and given the new subscription bundles they have, your ongoing database costs might be lower.  Don't know what Aspen charge for database subscriptions?

Garmin is low price alternative, who knew!

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, teejayevans said:

How does Aspen PFD,MFD combo compare with Garmin G500? 

Garmins price is lower, only $14K, and screens are bigger?

You need to look carefully at the "extras" you need to buy with the G500. The basic G500 will require a GAD-43 or 43e to work with your other avionics including the autopilot. As well, the battery backup is an option. I heard it is a $5k option. There are other functional differences as well. An example is if you went with the Aspen 2000, you end up with 2 HSIs and full back up redundancy in case the primary PFD goes blank. If the G500 PFD goes belly up, you are on steam gauges. When you add up the additional costs, they are pretty comparable in price. 

[Cruiser]

8 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

I have approach plates on 3 devices now. GTN 750, GPS 696, Garmin Pilot on tablet. 

I have a backup ASI and AI already there with no action to take in the case the Aspen dies. I would lose GPSS and if it were IMC, I'd have to fly an approach by hand though I would have the autopilot. 

Ah, yes. What is the cost of all those other devices you have that just the one panel mounted, certified MFD can provide? Maybe you wanted them anyway but an MFD is BY FAR cheaper option to provide these features.

The single most important fact is the MFD is panel mounted in your PRIMARY instrument scan. A HUGE benefit when flying in hard IFR conditions.

[Bob_Belville]

5 hours ago, Cruiser said:

Ah, yes. What is the cost of all those other devices you have that just the one panel mounted, certified MFD can provide? Maybe you wanted them anyway but an MFD is BY FAR cheaper option to provide these features.

The single most important fact is the MFD is panel mounted in your PRIMARY instrument scan. A HUGE benefit when flying in hard IFR conditions.

I think you're confusing me with someone else.

My Garmin US Standard + FlightCharts OnePak subscription ($799/yr) for the GTN 750, which Includes Garmin Navigation, Obstacles, SafeTaxi, Airport Directory, FliteCharts, IFR/VFR Charts, Terrain, Basemap, and Frequency databases, also covers, at no added cost, the 696 "portable" and the tablet running Garmin Pilot. It includes AOPA airports on the 696. That's it, my Aspen 1000 PFD has no subscription to update.

I have yet to see a panel that is less cluttered and more intuitive to scan than mine is. With tremendous redundancy. It is a delight to fly whether CAVU of hard IMC. (The vacuum AI is newly overhauled and the vacuum pump is 2 years and 150 hours old.) 

[donkaye]

On 12/11/2016 at 8:14 AM, gsxrpilot said:

Don't confuse me! ;-)

I assume that's a street price on the G500? They list it at $16K. In all seriousness, it's a consideration. 

If you were going to get the 2nd Aspen, in my opinion from experience flying both a 2 tube Aspen and several years with the G500, there is just no comparison.  It's the G500 hands down.  I paid $13,000 for the basic G500.  There are other  options which add to the cost, though.  You need the GAD 43e for AP interface with the KFC 150.  But you need the adaptor for the Aspen, too.  If you want SVT, that is an additional cost.

For least cost it's the single tube Aspen, with which you would be happy.  For utmost joy, though, it's the G500 above all including the G1000.  This is not to demean the Aspen.  It's just that the G500 is in a different class.  This just can't be communicated in writing.  It has to be experienced to be appreciated.

[M016576]

2 hours ago, donkaye said:

If you were going to get the 2nd Aspen, in my opinion from experience flying both a 2 tube Aspen and several years with the G500, there is just no comparison.  It's the G500 hands down.  I paid $13,000 for the basic G500.  There are other  options which add to the cost, though.  You need the GAD 43e for AP interface with the KFC 150.  But you need the adaptor for the Aspen, too.  If you want SVT, that is an additional cost.

For least cost it's the single tube Aspen, with which you would be happy.  For utmost joy, though, it's the G500 above all including the G1000.  This is not to demean the Aspen.  It's just that the G500 is in a different class.  This just can't be communicated in writing.  It has to be experienced to be appreciated.

I agree that I like the G500 interface more than the G1000- but I'd hesitate to say "utmost joy."  Realistically were talking about an attitude indicator and an HSI (ok, and an mfd with the g500... don't get me started on their utility in the iPad era, though).  "Utmost Joy" is breaking out at minimums when you thought you were going around, and half your jet is leaking Hyd fluid.  Or maybe that's just "utmost relief."

"utmost joy" I think might be breaking out on top, at night... the moon lighting up an under cast or snow covered terrain so much it feels like daytime.

the Aspen has a nice IFR pfd.  So does the G500.  The best one between the two is the one you are trained on and know. Cold. For the days when you crave nothing more than "utmost relief."

Just my opinion...

Edited December 14, 2016 by M016576

[donkaye]

1 hour ago, M016576 said:

I agree that I like the G500 interface more than the G1000- but I'd hesitate to say "utmost joy."  Realistically were talking about an attitude indicator and an HSI (ok, and an mfd with the g500... don't get me started on their utility in the iPad era, though).  "Utmost Joy" is breaking out at minimums when you thought you were going around, and half your jet is leaking Hyd fluid.  Or maybe that's just "utmost relief."

"utmost joy" I think might be breaking out on top, at night... the moon lighting up an under cast or snow covered terrain so much it feels like daytime.

the Aspen has a nice IFR pfd.  So does the G500.  The best one between the two is the one you are trained on and know. Cold. For the days when you crave nothing more than "utmost relief."

Just my opinion...

Do you fly behind the G500 with System 7.12?  The 750 and 650 with System 6.12?  The GMA 35c with voice Control of nearly all functions and pages of the 750?  The GTS 800 interfaced with the GDL 88 interfaced with the G500, GTN 750 and 650, and all interfaced with both the Flight Stream 510 and Flight Stream 210?  We'll throw the WX 500 into the mix--and the ESI 500--and the MVP 50--and The GTX 335, and top it all off with the Garmin Pilot interface with database Concierge and database sync?  No need to update any cards at all.  It all happens behind the scenes with Garmin Pilot.  Notwithstanding walking away from any emergency,  "utmost joy".