Tylor Posted October 24, 2016 Report Posted October 24, 2016 Hi so i am new to mooneys, and i am looking at one to purchase. Just curious what a fair or average price is for a 1978 m20j 1900 hours total time 1900 on engine. Interior is in great shape i would say at least an 8 out 10 leather seats, king200 auto pilot, paint looks like any airplane that is that old. Compression is in the 70s oil sample sent out looks great. Just want an estimate what something like this would be worth, and how long will i be able to fly it before i have to stick a bunch of money in to the engine.. Thanks for the help! Quote
Bob_Belville Posted October 24, 2016 Report Posted October 24, 2016 147.5 hours to OH. You might find something similar on Controller or Trade a Plane to get price comparisons. Original avionics? Assuming there are no issues like corrosion, leaking tanks, deferred or neglected maintenance.. there are 3 things on the top of the list when determining value: Engine time, Panel, Paint. You might need to discount for all 3 but you can spend over 50k for a modern panel, over 30k for a fresh engine and 15k for fresh paint. A '78 M20J with all 3 big ticket items already updated might still be had for 100-125k which means a '78 with run out engine, original paint and avionics isn't worth a whole lot. (I spent as much time with my answer as it took to ask so take it with a grain of salt and welcome to MS Tylor! Quote
Yetti Posted October 24, 2016 Report Posted October 24, 2016 If this plane is posted online just put a link and the peanut gallery will provide you with comentary 1 Quote
carusoam Posted October 24, 2016 Report Posted October 24, 2016 Welcome aboard, Tylor... I would guess 60 to 90 AMU, based on the details that you have provided... You have stumbled onto my other favorite questions... Are you looking for a plane with a run-out engine? (Your initial request indicates that maybe you are) Is that intentional? You may want to stay with the halfway to TBO. A compromise between cost and need for overhaul... TBO or time between overhauls is about 2000hours for the J's engine, and many of the Mooney family. TC'd engines might be lower... Some other mooney ideas... Visit a place called All American Aircraft. They are the one shop that specializes in Mooneys. They take in trades and sell some of the nicest pre-owned planes. Talk to a couple of gentlemen named either Jimmy or David. Few people on the planet will know more about the history of each model and how it best fits a customer. When you visit the shop they have at least one of each model. Short, medium and long. Try to determine if a TC is required for the mission you have in mind. Short of sitting in each one, you can go on line to see what they have in stock. Use caution, it is not a high pressure sales room. But, the attraction to the world fastest, factory built, four seat, airplanes is pretty strong. You might get away without actually buying anything... But you will be back, Maybe not this year, maybe not this decade... http://allamericanaircraft.com/Default.htm To simplify things... Think small, medium, and large... (How big is your family going to grow?) Then select your power plant. Carb'd, Fuel injection, TC or TN'd... How updated would you like your instrument panel? Barely IFR, Analog IFR, digital IFR or full blown color screen IFR? Many have been updated to the latest and greatest already... A sliding ruler of lowest price vs. Mooney Model. Lowest price is the baseline, often worn, aged and not up to date. Adding paint and overhaul, plus new nav equipment, the price jumps in tens of thousands... in other words, I don't think you would want a plane priced lower in each model. Lower prices do exist. They are more like projects, not planes... 20k A - short body, wood wings, O360 180hp 30k B - short body, rounded, shaped Windows. 40k C - short body, small updates from B. Got rectangular windows in '65. 35k D - short body, fixed gear, fixed prop. Often converted into a C 50k E - short body, cowl modded for fuel injection. 200hp (great retirement plane) 60k F - mid body, looks like a C with a larger rear window. FI like the E. Bob reminded me to look for the three side windows on the F. Some have been updated to the J's two window image. 50k G - mid body, looks like an F but has a carburetor. Fabulous for young family. H and I were not in production. 80k J - Aka 201, an aerodynamic version of the F. The standard of the normally aspirated world! Newer Js got rounded corners on their windows. Other planes painted round corners or used vinyl to look updated... 90k K - Aka 231, a J with a TC'd Continental engine. The standard of the TC'd world! Evolved into the 252. L - Porsche powered Long Body. Know your Mooney history prior to purchase! 150k M - Updated version of the L using the Lycoming TSIO540. Aka: Private airliner! O and P not production models... 200k R - Ovation, Continental powered IO550 Long Body. Available with 310hp. This plane Rocks! 175k S - Eagle, Started life as an economically favorable version of the R, fully upgradable to Standing Ovation using one mod at a time! Except they are called screamin' Eagles. 300k TN - Acclaim, a TN'd Long Body of epic proportion! Available with 310hp all the way up to the flight levels with options of FIKI ice protection when it is cold, and air conditioning when it is not. Q and V - These are the new semi composite show pieces with a new pilot side door. Quality and Value in both! Mods... Missile - a mid body J with an IO550(a) shoe horned under a K's cowl.... (Rocket Engineering product) Rocket - a mid body K with more horsepower than the 231 and updated MP controller and inter cooler. (Rocket Engineering product) 261/262 Trophy Conversions. These were/are 231s modified to be 252 clones with a few extra mods. Think of a 12 volt 252. The 261/262 POHS are virtually the same as the 252s. (Thanks go to Bennet who reminded me of these Coy Jacobs' machines) Each Mooney has a name tag, look on the fuselage under the pilot side horizontal stabilizer. Start with a look at the cowling. The four cylinders are hiding under a short cowl. The K is hiding a six cylinder under a stretched cowl. The long bodies are hiding a six cylinder and moved the engine forwards for balance. The original cowl has a large opening similar to a guppy's mouth. There are a few mods that help improve airflow, cooling, and looks. Proceed to the windows. The mid bodies got a 10" stretch so full sized adults can sit in the back. The rear window got elongated. The Long bodies got an even longer window with a vertical bar behind it. The interior volume of an SUV fits in the long bodies' baggage area. David said if it fits in the Tahoe, it will fit in the O. He was right. Aerodynamic improvements came in mid J. Shaped fiberglass wing tips give them away. The windshield got sloped like a Corvette. Keep in mind that some improvements from later years can be installed on older airframes using factory parts and assembly drawings. Some improvements may need an STC to go with them. This is a recycled answer with some prices I made up attached this time. Mostly Ideas that came from the top of my head. I got plenty of help from other MSers... Know what a PPI is prior to putting hard earned cash down on anything. Ya know? Best regards, -a- 5 Quote
TTaylor Posted October 24, 2016 Report Posted October 24, 2016 Several calculators around: http://www.themooneyflyer.com/valuation/M20JValuation.html If you are a AOPA member: https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/buying-an-aircraft/vref-aircraft-valuation How long can you fly it before an engine overhaul? Likely from 25 to 400 hours. You are not required to overhaul it at 2000 hours so you can go significantly beyond that, on the other hand there are no guarantees in aviation. You need to plan for the cost of a new engine the day you purchase the plane. Purchase price should reflect the risk or walk a way. Quote
rbridges Posted October 24, 2016 Report Posted October 24, 2016 Just as a point of reference, someone on here is selling a J model for less than $50 because it has a crack in the crankcase. Quote
gsxrpilot Posted October 24, 2016 Report Posted October 24, 2016 In my humble opinion, the sweet spot for engine hours when shopping for a plane is 500 to 1000 hours. A plane with a fresh overhaul is less desirable as you might very well run into infant mortality issues, depending on the quality of work and parts used. A plane with a runout engine is even less desirable as you might have no hours left, you've got the downtime of the overhaul, and then you've still got the infant mortality risk after the fresh overhaul. It would have to be an amazing airframe, paint, interior, and panel (specifically autopilot) for me to look at anything with a runout engine. Quote
rbridges Posted October 24, 2016 Report Posted October 24, 2016 If the plane is priced as a runout, I could see buying it and getting "free time." Someone made a comment about infant mortality vs. high time engines. They said high time engines tend to have "gradual" failures whereas infant mortality could be more sudden/catastrophic issues. Don't know if that's accurate, but it kinda made sense to me. Personally, I'd rather have one in the sweet spot, but that's b/c I've never dealt with major engine work. I bought my plane with 700 SMOH with 150 STOH. Seven years later, and I'm just closing in on 1100. Someone else who's comfortable with overhauls may prefer to get one that's near TBO so that he can control how the OH is done. 1 Quote
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