Anyone in/near Albany? Questions for first time Mooney buyer

[AlexLev]

Curious about taking a look at a potential 201 with someone who has some experience with Mooney's or can put me in touch with someone around the area. I happen to currently be on a train to Albany for a work trip and may have a few hours to see the plane, but I wouldn't really know what to look for if I go see it, etc and don't know any pilots in the area.

Here's the listing:

Asking: $61,000

LOW TIME 1976 Mooney 201 J model.
- Clean, well maintained.
- Only 1136 hours airframe and engine since Factory new!
- Clean interior with new leather seats, plastics. Clean windows. Fuel tank conversion.
- Garmin 430 GPS/Com, JPI EDM 800 Engine Mgmt. 396 AirGizmo Power Flow exhaust system. 
- This is a very low time and desired Mooney model 201J.
- Selling due to upgrade to Ovation.
- IFR due 06/2017. Annual good 'til October 2017, comes with fresh annual.
- Complete logbooks. Will sell quickly. Fast / Clean / Affordable

61k is on the low end for 201s. I assume it's because the engine is from 1978 and has barely been flown. I sent the seller a few texts...

"me: Hi - curious about the 201. What's the UL on that one? How is engine running, if it's got so few hours it must have not flown very much...not very good for it.
Him: No, the plane has not flown a whole lot in the last few years. Frequently started and run, regularly inspected. Runs great, start right up, mechanic likes it. 8:19 AM
Him: I'll have to get you a useful load in a little while. 8:20 AM  
Him: I am awaiting a deposit from someone, but first come… First served. 8:23 AM
Him: No Waas 8:50 AM
Him: I do not have the UL with me at the office. 9:00 AM
This is a wonderfully low time / two owner / priced right airplane. Owner is motivated, selling because he also owns and fles a Mooney Ovation. 9:01 AM
Me: Do you know what work needs to be done on it? I'm interested depending on how much needs to be put into it. Airplanes that aren't flown a lot usually have a lot of squawks build up over the years 9:10 AM
Him: Absolutely nothing needs to be done. Any and all squawks were looked at last inspection

"

Thoughts? Are there reliable ways to measure engine strength? It is assumed that because the plane has flown so little it's bound to have mountains of problems?

I'm looking at a potential first Mooney and have lots of questions and would love to find someone in the WNY/CNY area who is willing to help a novice out.

I'd like to have a useful load of close to 1,000lbs. I've definitely found some 20Fs that fit that, the Js seem to be able to haul less. Is there any wisdom for whether the Fs or Js would be more expensive to maintain? It would be my first airplane and I'd have to learn a lot.

Edited October 5, 2016 by AlexLev

[MCDsiena]

I live in the Albany area, although a novice myself. I just recently purchased and renovated my first plane which is a '66 C (new panel, windows, interior) which I keep at 5B2.  I know a couple A&P in the area that know Mooney's and a friend of mine who lives locally has owned a few over the years. I may be able to get you in touch with one of those guys depending on where its based. They may even know the plane already.  Shoot me a PM if you'd like. 

[AlexLev]

Cool! ^ Sent you a PM! Congrats on the '66C purchase!

[orionflt]

Alex,

There are a lot of different concerns when looking at an airplane that has been sitting, because of the age i would consider the engine run out and in need of an overhaul. I can send you a checklist I use when I am performing prebuys but that probably would not help you out a lot. a general look at the price and the info puts the price in the right area if everything is as advertised but I would go thru the log books first and if that looks good move on to a prebuy. you can PM me if you have questions.

Brian

 

[orionflt]

quick look for info, plane has no publicly reported damage history, started out in NY,  most recently registered in Tampa Fl. looks like this bird has some potential. also look to see if oil analysis was done on the last annual.  

Brian

[AlexLev]

Thanks, Brian. Good suggestions. If the engine seems to be performing well, had good compression checks, no metal in oil analysis; what are some other indicators one looks at to see if it's safe to operate without performing an overhaul?

More info about this particular plane: The 430 is not IFR approved, which is a bit of a ding (big sticker that says that the 430 is not IFR approved) because apparently: "That was a technicality. Back in 2004 there was a STC for the install, then had to be test flown for IFR approval. Never done it, or documented. Unit works fine. Considered in price. Wouldn't need a WAAS upgrade, approximately $4000 if desired."

Also, doesn't seem to have an A/P...what are some solutions to install an A/P?

This plane is more or less local, but I found an interesting 20F on the market as well: http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1183463_1975+Mooney+M20F.html

Seems like a super plane, aside from the higher time engine (but at least its been flying regularly so I'd have more confidence in it despite the higher hours).

"It has no fuel bladders, it’s a wet wing, both tanks were stripped and resealed 6/20/02 by Midwest Mooney sales and service, Flora Ill., my price considers the engine time as it was a deduction on my appraisal last week.  I flight plan 142 knots probably around 145 knots. Last year I had the fuel injection servo and associated components overhauled here in Tulsa.

No cylinders have been changed since overhaul and the compression at last annual in June was 70, 74, 74, 70 / 80"

 

Anyone if the average F or J owner spends more on maintenance?

[gsxrpilot]

I'd expect to immediately do an engine overhaul, get the panel/gps certified, and install an autopilot. And that's just what you know about. Typically you'd want to plan for 10% of the purchase price in misc stuff at the beginning as well. By the time I totaled up that work, I'd go find a J that's actually ready to fly.

[ArtVandelay]

1976 Mooney 201 J model?? First thing I would check is the serial number.

No Js built in 76 to my knowledge.

[KSMooniac]

Some J's were built in 76 but were sold as 77 models. Some might have gotten erroneously titled as 76. I think mine was built in Dec 76...can't remember now. I actually have the original bill of sale from Mooney to Wilmar.

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[bradp]

My first logbook entry was in 76 and it was marketed as a 77.  Lucky me it's under CAR-3 certification. 

Agree with above. Sitting. Tampa.  Would likely need to be overhauled soon after it starts flying again. One good method would be to pull a cylinder and borescope the cam.  Look at recent pics from jclemens project in FL.  Recent similar thread about an engine sitting and the risks of performing major surgery as part of a pre-buy  

There are no squawks because the plane hasn't been flown at all.  They are there.  It's just that nobody has looked into them.   

Make sure SB 208 is complied with.  You don't want a rotted out tubular frame. Whomever does the pre buy will have to pull interior panels and inspection panels beneath the seat for a spar inspection.  It would also be worthwhile to run the magnet as per SB-208 even if there's been a previous long book entry indicating compliance.  

Fuel tank seals, biscuits and anything rubber is subject to sitting and rotting....

Priced as a runout this might be a consideration but it is not without risk.   There is a lot of work in making sure that the a/c is up to snuff.  Probably more than the seller is willing to put up with.  I'd personally pass but to each his own.  

 

To answer the the original question a lot of the early Js don't that have a metric ton of options found in the later models (O2, AP, dual alternators etc) have ULs in the 900s.  Remember that you have 64 gals of gas on board, which is way more fuel than my bladder can handle sans discrete tossing of a certain Gatorade bottle in the FBO bin or Pilot relief tube(Tm).   Your payload will be bit more than you think of you take into consideration your fuel needs plus conservative reserves.  

Early Js don't qualify for the 2900 MGW increase. 

Fs are the best haulers overall in the Mooney fleet.  

(Aside-As much as I love flying our Mooney, if our family grows anymore and we still want to take the pup with us, I'm going to have to start looking at 6pl aircraft.  It's amazing how much stuff we tend to haul along...  That said I got wife, her stuff from a trip to Africa, Toddler, weeks worth of toddler stuff, and a weekend trip bag for me, plus the usual gear and equipment I carry and was still under gross with full tanks).  That's much better than expected.  And I still got 150ktas at 8.5 gph. Cool).  

[Yetti]

Check AD for the engine

[Marauder]

As a 25 year 75F owner, looking at the example you provided, I would certainly consider it. It clearly has flown and the owner has made some nice investments. The F and J have similar maintenance requirements.

Many F owners have done a decent job of maintaining their planes. Me being one of them.




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[carusoam]

Start with pictures and logs, then go visit it.  At 61amu, that is the low end of the J price range isn't it?

There is a lot to learn about buying planes.  Starting at the low end is going to be a learning experience.

Best regards,

-a-

[AlexLev]

Was about to go look at it tomorrow morning with another 20J owner (thank you to these forums!!!) who reached out, but owner just texted me and said:

"20J Seller ALB: Alex, I believe the aircraft was just sold. $55,000 9:15 PM
Me: Oh yeah? Congratulations if that's the case. Not meeting then tomorrow? 9:15 PM
20J Seller ALB: Not sure I see the need. If it fails the pre-purchased, then you didn't want that either. 9:21 PM
Me: Yeah, true. I wasn't going to buy it without having a cylinder removed to look inside anyway. 9:22 PM "

Guess I'm not going to own this plane: http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_files/1/1/7/9/0/3/2/1179032-N201DL.pdf

Edited October 7, 2016 by AlexLev

[KSMooniac]

Planes priced right, either on the low end or high end, will sell quickly even in this market. There will be others, just be patient and ready to pounce. That means figure out your budget, priority/wish list, have cash or financing ready, etc. so you can be a serious buyer. Good luck!

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