experiences flying shotgun panel IFR?

[craigsteffen]

Hi,

I just got my IFR ticket in September, and this year I've become interested in vintage Mooneys.  At the moment, if I had a little more cash, I'd try to pick up a 1967 or 1968 M-20F, to have the manual gear and flaps but with the extended body, bigger tanks and increased gross weight.

Almost everyone I've seen post here doesn't like the old "shotgun" panel.  But I think think the original pre-1970s panel has a certain charm to it.  It's like the panel of a Piper Cub (left-rotating tach on the left, magnetic compass in the middle, combination oil pressure/oil temp gauge on the right), utterly unmistakable and unique. 

Now, I've only flown left seat in an early panel once, with an instructor in the right seat.  I've obviously never flown one IFR.  I can't think that it would take more than a few hours to get used to the arrangement and then you'd be fine.

Anyone who flies IFR in an old-style panel have any opinions?  Would you change it if you had the money?  Anyone with a 6-pack wish you could go back? 

Thanks for any thoughts. 

Craig Steffen

(private in 2007, instrument 2010, total hours 130-ish, mostly fly C-172s)

[flight2000]

Quote: craigsteffen

Anyone with a 6-pack wish you could go back? 

[craigsteffen]

Quote: flight2000

If you have done your IFR training and have a standard scan, having the instruments all over the place will eventually drive you nuts.  That's how I ended up with a new panel.  I don't think I lasted 10 hours with the old system.

[danb35]

My Mooney had the shotgun panel, I did my IFR training with it, and then I changed to the 6-pack.  It's a definite improvement, though you can certainly learn to scan any arrangement of instruments you have.  It also gives room for another instrument, which allowed me to move my #2 CDI from the RH panel to the LH panel, which then allowed me to move my tach back to its original location (just under the MP/fuel pressure gauge, on the LH side of the RH panel), both of which were good for instrument readability.

[takair]

I too got my instrument rating with the shotgun panel and minimal equipment. I flew it that way for a while then did a LASAR upgrade.  You can fly IFR with the old panel, and many people did and do.  You can certainly get used to it.  However, it is not just the placement, but the distance.  The farther things are apart, the longer to scan and get the big picture.  Enroute, this is not a big deal.  On a low approach it can be.  That is the big advantage to EFIS and glass panels.  It is even an advantage of an HSI over CDI.  The less you have to move your eyes, the quicker you have the big picture.  It really comes down to how you fly the plane.  If you are going to do hard core, low IFR, then there is an advantage to the standard panel.  You can always upgrade your plane as you gain experience with it and want to push lower, or you may find you can keep up with no problem.  I really like the upgrade.  The only thing I miss is the big, original Mooney Attitude indicator.  It was easier to read and more stable.  Wish I could squeeze it back in.

[carusoam]

I had the shotgun panel, I trained with it.  It had one VOR/ILS.  I upgraded to an M20R with steam gauges, A/P and GPS.  I would only go back if I had to.

Get in whatever Mooney fits your budget and upgrade or work your way up as you can....  (keeping it legal and safe)

The A/P or wing leveler gives you the opportunity to have a mental break while scanning.  Scanning a shotgun panel with minimal instrumentation and no wing leveler will wear you down fast on a bumpy complex flight plan.

Best regards,

-a-

[eaglebkh]

My panel was shotgun when I first bought it, and I flew it VFR that way for 2 years.  I then had the avionics upgraded and went with the 6-pack before IFR training.  No regrets, and now I don't worry about having to learn a different scan if I fly another plane.

[craigsteffen]

Quote: eaglebkh

My panel was shotgun when I first bought it, and I flew it VFR that way for 2 years.  I then had the avionics upgraded and went with the 6-pack before IFR training.

[eaglebkh]

Yes, that's my panel!

I needed to get the plane IFR ready, meaning aditional CDI, DG with heading bug, GPSS, and electric AI (for redundancy).  Buying these components separate vs. the Aspen was about a $3k difference - worth it to me.  Plus the Aspen offers several little goodies, like a winds aloft indicator, additional map, RMI's (people don't realize the utility of these until they actually use them), and the potenitally life saving back-up battery.

[eldeano]

The 6 pack really helps if you fly other airplanes vfr or ifr, otherwise its easy to get a little confused. I fly the g1000s sometimes as well but its so different that it doesn't mess me up as much.  I think the first thing I would invest in if I were doing a lot of serious IFR is an autopilot or wings leveler.

 

[craigsteffen]

Quote: eldeano

  I think the first thing I would invest in if I were doing a lot of serious IFR is an autopilot or wings leveler.

[Jerry 5TJ]

My 64E and my 65C both had the panel laid out by the guy with the shotgun.   I flew 'em about 1200 hours and my eyeballs got used to flitting around in the pretzel scan required.  Before I put in a new panel, I first paid good money to overhaul the gyros, and to add a second, electric AI.   Your priorities may vary.

Sure, the "T" layout is much nicer. 

A big color LCD across the whole panel and a HUD with synthetic vision and FLIR would be better still.   Christmas is coming but I am not holding my breath.