Looking to get into a Mooney

[klystron]

Hello All, 

I've been lurking around here for a little while and now I'm finally ready to take the plunge and try to find a mooney of my own. Due to some complications with getting a medical cert I decided to just get a sport certificate back in March, but after some work with an awesome AME I finally managed to get my 3rd class medical certificate!

Now that I am no longer limited to tiny, slow, LSA's I'm looking at acquiring a Mooney to finish up my PPL training in and work on additional ratings in (IR, CPL, CFI, etc). I also plan to use it for lots of cross country flying. I'm an avid climber, backcountry snowboarder, and mountaineer and would love to fly myself and 1-2 partners to cool climbing destinations. I currently live in Los Alamos, NM (KLAM). Our airport sits at 7,200' and hangar space is incredibly limited, so I will end up tying down the aircraft.

I'm looking for a fast and efficient aircraft, which is why I'm looking for a moony:

1) Ideally an M20C or M20E with speed mods, but an M20F would also work.

2) Max price of $60,000

3) Turbo Normalized would be awesome. 

4) WAAS GPS and Autopilot equipped strongly desired.

5) Crappy exterior and interior are just fine.

6) <1500hrs SMOH 

7) Aspen PFD strongly desired (Most of my flying has been in a Remos-GX with Dynons)

8) Manual gear preferred. 

 

So if you know of anyone trying to sell an aircraft roughly fitting that bill send them my way! 

I'm also kind of eyeing this aircraft: http://www.kelmaraircraftsales.com/7027v.html 
It's a '76 M20F With a RayJay turbo, speedbrakes, only 2845h on the airframe, 801 SMOH on the engine, 80hrs on the prop. It had a spalled camshaft that was repaired in 2006 and a prop strike in 2003. I'm a bit concerned that it has been sitting for at least a year and I would obviously have to upgrade some of the avionics. Any advice?

[211º]

To save yourself some stress down the road, it might be good to have (say) $10k in the bank for things that will need addressed - having said that, you should be able to find a fine C or E that fits the most of the bill. Aircraft that sit for a while begin to concern me.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[rbridges]

stupid question, but is a normally aspirated 4 cylinder going to do well at 7200 field elevation?  Or do people just learn to fly with slower climb rates in areas like that?

[Smiles201]

I used to be in a 201 partnership in Los Alamos. Over ten years ago. Never any problem with climb rate, just follow standard high altitude procedures (under gross, cool time of day), You may be more confident with the additional hp of an e, happy hunting.

[3914N]

17 minutes ago, rbridges said:

stupid question, but is a normally aspirated 4 cylinder going to do well at 7200 field elevation?  Or do people just learn to fly with slower climb rates in areas like that?

There are many vintage model POH's online, I would encourage you to look through them and see what the performance charts say.  My normally-aspirated M20G, probably the worst climber of all vintage Mooneys, does a solid 400-500 fpm at 7,500' DA and gross weight.  Not breathtaking performance, but enough to visit most of my local mountain airports with passengers in the back.

The bigger factor is what the surrounding terrain looks like.  I think most pilots who play around the rockies want the RayJay on their vintage birds.  

Edited July 23, 2016 by 3914N

[Bartman]

I am no expert, but if the aircraft is located in the arid climate of Arizona then sitting for 1 year might not be such a big deal. However, if it has been sitting for over a year, then it will most likely need an annual inspection.

The K seems to have its quirks, but I would LOVE to have a RayJay on my J. 

[Ron McBride]

I departed grants this morning,. 8300 density altitude and climbed out at 500fpm,. 1200 ago at midfield downwind. About 2500 lbs wt.

Ron. 69 F. 

[klystron]

1 hour ago, rbridges said:

stupid question, but is a normally aspirated 4 cylinder going to do well at 7200 field elevation?  Or do people just learn to fly with slower climb rates in areas like that?

Yeah, I rented a Remos-GX, which has a 100HP Rotax in it and it does "ok". I tend to expect about 300-400 fpm with 2 people in it. Some days we get 12,000' DAs so I tend not to fly on those days.  We have at least 4 mooneys on our small field, probably more hiding in the hangars. 

[klystron]

40 minutes ago, 3914N said:

The bigger factor is what the surrounding terrain looks like.  I think most pilots who play around the rockies want the RayJay on their vintage birds.  

Pretty much this. KLAM is a 1-way airport, go arounds are sketchy because we have terrain that rises to 10,000' about 2-3 miles behind the runway. My primary destination will be KBJC, which means I'd have to go through at least 1 9,600' pass with surrounding mountains going up to 12,000'. I'd also love to be able to get up high for cruising and maybe acclimatization for climbing big mountains... (I've been up to 23,000' on foot and plan on going up to almost 27,000' next spring)

[XXX]

Klystron,

Congrats on getting your medical!

That is a nice looking "F" and has some nice mods. Someone spent quite a few AMU's on those . Has it been hangared? Consistent annuals? Inactivity is no good with aircraft, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely. A thorough pre-buy would be a must. The RayJay will certainly help at your altitude.

On the other hand your mission might be better suited to a Skylane. Passengers, gear, rugged terrain. How far are your intended destinations? I have access to a Skylane which I flew exclusively before I owned the Mooney and they each have their strong points. There are some short grass strips I used the Skylane for that would be a challenge if not impossible for the Mooney.

Either way I wish you much success in your aviation endeavors.

Best,

 

Steve

[klystron]

3 hours ago, Chupacabra said:

Klystron,

Congrats on getting your medical!

That is a nice looking "F" and has some nice mods. Someone spent quite a few AMU's on those . Has it been hangared? Consistent annuals? Inactivity is no good with aircraft, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely. A thorough pre-buy would be a must. The RayJay will certainly help at your altitude.

On the other hand your mission might be better suited to a Skylane. Passengers, gear, rugged terrain. How far are your intended destinations? I have access to a Skylane which I flew exclusively before I owned the Mooney and they each have their strong points. There are some short grass strips I used the Skylane for that would be a challenge if not impossible for the Mooney.

Either way I wish you much success in your aviation endeavors.

Best,

 

Steve

My main destination will be Boulder, Co where I have a bunch of friends on the ground to give me rides. I'd plan on flying up there, or to Buena Vista or Aspen several times a month to climb 14ers, snowboard, etc. Other big climbing destinations are going to be places like Jackson Hole, Yosemite, various places in Alaska and Canada. Most of the trips I'd plan on landing at a larger airport and then taking a car to the trailhead. Some of the special trips, like places in Alaska and Canada would involve getting to a glacier and being gone for 3+ weeks. For trips like that I'd fly to Talkeetna and then take one of the air taxi services to glacier (I'm partial to Sheldon Air service, those guys are great!) I would also like to look into flying down to Mexico to climb some of the volcanoes down there.

 

The thing I really love about mooney's over a 182 is the fuel economy. It's easier to con people into flying with me and split fuel costs when I can keep those costs low and the travel times shorter. Most of the time it will only be me and 1, maybe 2 other lightweight guys and probably about 50lbs of gear per person. We tend to subscribe to the "fast and light" style of alpinism which so far has served us well. 

[Raptor05121]

kylstron, congrats on your choice. With that altitude (and my inexperienced opinion), I'd strongly look for a turbo-normalized plane. It seems like more F's are T/N, but might be some E's. Keep us posted on the search.

-Alex

[par]

As someone already eluded to the advantage of having some cash standing by, all I will say is that if your max price is 60k, you should look at keeping it more around 50k and holding onto the 10k for the initial set of issues. Problems are inevitable and I am very glad that I only spent 29k on my purchase of my C because at this point, I'm 40k into it. The things I've had to do to it will not increase the value all that much. However, it is now a reliable airplane that hasn't failed me so far. I'm sure I'll be spending more on it in the near future but those items will add significant value. Just my 2 cents.

Edited July 23, 2016 by par

[klystron]

7 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

kylstron, congrats on your choice. With that altitude (and my inexperienced opinion), I'd strongly look for a turbo-normalized plane. It seems like more F's are T/N, but might be some E's. Keep us posted on the search.

-Alex

Yeah I've noticed this as well. I've seen T/N F's and C's but almost never an E. My dream plane would be a T/N'd E with a full set of 201 mods. 

1 hour ago, par said:

As someone already eluded to the advantage of having some cash standing by, all I will say is that if your max price is 60k, you should look at keeping it more around 50k and holding onto the 10k for the initial set of issues. Problems are inevitable and I am very glad that I only spent 29k on my purchase of my C because at this point, I'm 40k into it. The things I've had to do to it will not increase the value all that much. However, it is not a reliable airplane that hasn't failed me so far. I'm sure I'll be spending more on it in the near future but those items will add significant value. Just my 2 cents.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I'm convinced this is the best approach. Thanks for the heads up!

36 minutes ago, rogerl said:

Have been into KLAM with a J many times; never an issue but if you get a departure engine failure it won't be pretty.  The plutonium handling site bordering the runway on the south side makes for interesting conversation if you miss to the left or turn out too hard to the right (oops!).

Haha yup! At least you get a couple hundred feet of extra altitude once off the mesa, and I have heard of people utilizing the emergency strip down in the canyon. The other option is to shoot for the highway and pray you get down before the steep hill... Still a super exciting airport to fly in and out of!

 

 The buildings to the south are LANSCE, the Los Alamos Neutron Science Center. 

[klystron]

I have also come across a 1981 M20J with aging paint and interior. Avionics look good and the price is a little on the high side for me but the owner said he was willing to accept "fair" offers. He is currently asking $62,900. The aircraft has 985 SMOH and looks like it has spent most of it's life tied down and the paint definitely shows that it lives outside in Ohio. Here is a link to the trade-a-plane listing: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20J+201&listing_id=2179200&s-type=aircraft

I also have a google drive link to logbook pictures and additional pictures of the aircraft. Is there anything I should be particularly insistent on or pay additional attention to when looking at an aircraft with aging paint? Current owner is an A&P.

 

Thanks,

- Josh

[ArtVandelay]

Corrosion is more likely with a plane tied down, you will need to do a thorough prebuy that includes removing interior and some inspection panels.

[ArtVandelay]

Also you'll need to upgrade the avionics sometime before 2020 to fulfill ADSB requirements, plan for it.

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, klystron said:

I have also come across a 1981 M20J with aging paint and interior. Avionics look good and the price is a little on the high side for me but the owner said he was willing to accept "fair" offers. He is currently asking $62,900. The aircraft has 985 SMOH and looks like it has spent most of it's life tied down and the paint definitely shows that it lives outside in Ohio. Here is a link to the trade-a-plane listing: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20J+201&listing_id=2179200&s-type=aircraft

I also have a google drive link to logbook pictures and additional pictures of the aircraft. Is there anything I should be particularly insistent on or pay additional attention to when looking at an aircraft with aging paint? Current owner is an A&P.

 

Thanks,

- Josh

Here's that airplane on a YouTube video.    

 

Here it is on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/NewFlyersAssociation/photos/?tab=album&album_id=290819777684465

[Danb]

Lance how do you fing this stuff?

[LANCECASPER]

It's a little thing I discovered called Google . .lol. I just put in the N-number off of the ad and it showed up.

[klystron]

7 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

It's a little thing I discovered called Google . .lol. I just put in the N-number off of the ad and it showed up.

Lol normally when I google an N-number it's to run an aviationDB query on it. 

On a similar note. Anyone know what's going on in these pictures with the baffling for the landing gear actuators? Looks like the opening has been taped closed and then a hole large enough to for the actuators was cut / torn into it...

[Mooneymite]

Just looks like the mouse socks have been removed.

[klystron]

8 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Just looks like the mouse socks have been removed.

Ok cool, thanks. I wasn't sure if it was anything serious or not which is why I ask!

[carusoam]

The original mouse socks were made of 60’s natural fabric.  They didn't last very long.  (The forty years that I needed)

It is probable that they can be purchased from the factory through an MSC.  Less engineering involved this way...

There are also better duct tapes that are available for the installation.

Best regards,

-a-

 

[jrwilson]

11 hours ago, carusoam said:

The original mouse socks were made of 60’s natural fabric.  They didn't last very long.  (The forty years that I needed)

It is probable that they can be purchased from the factory through an MSC.  Less engineering involved this way...

There are also better duct tapes that are available for the installation.

Best regards,

-a-

 

Yes, I just bought some new socks from an MSC...Surprisingly pricey for what they were, but that is aviation.  That would be a great application for an owner produced part.