Mooney down with fatalities

[Oldguy]

When going into KDTS a while back, I was held up at altitude until only 4 miles out and then cleared to land straight in on RWY 14. Although I thought I did a good job of getting down to the runway, it was not as stable as it should have been. With a choice between a go-around or possible porpoise and prop strike, I chose the former. Throttle, rudder, pitch and a bit of trim to take pressure off the yoke. Gear up with positive climb rate, flaps half up at 300' and full up at 500' trimming all the time. Was very busy, but not unreasonably so. Didn't even think about the high-rise condos off the end of the runway.

Lesson? Thanks for the straight in, but I'll join the pattern. I'm the PIC. Same situation since then and no problem.

[PMcClure]

5 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

When going into KDTS a while back, I was held up at altitude until only 4 miles out and then cleared to land straight in on RWY 14. Although I thought I did a good job of getting down to the runway, it was not as stable as it should have been. With a choice between a go-around or possible porpoise and prop strike, I chose the former. Throttle, rudder, pitch and a bit of trim to take pressure off the yoke. Gear up with positive climb rate, flaps half up at 300' and full up at 500' trimming all the time. Was very busy, but not unreasonably so. Didn't even think about the high-rise condos off the end of the runway.

Lesson? Thanks for the straight in, but I'll join the pattern. I'm the PIC. Same situation since then and no problem.

The other option is S turns or a 360. Also, you can always bug out and return for sequencing. I have had this same scenario coming into BHM. Not always possible, but these options are another "out" of this situation. Just have to ask the controller. Your right, you are the PIC. Just because it helps them to dump you in doesn't mean you have to take it. 

[triple8s]

19 hours ago, daver328 said:

I might add: I don't trim for landing; I trim for the go-around ... If you get my meaning?

If not trimmed for a possible go around in a long body with a powerful engine out in front you will get a very big suprise when trimmed nearly full nose up full flaps and rudder trim somewhere other than takeoff position. Not saying it is impossible to keep it under control but it definately wants to make a hard left and pitch WAY up when the little black knob is quickly pushed in. I could only imagine approaching with a heavy load and trying a go around when not correctly configured, as always plan ahead.

[wishboneash]

To me the go around begins with arresting the descent. Doesn't take a whole lot of power or other configuration changes to do that. Once that is set up, one can increase power further, clean up the plane as positive rate of climb is established in a scripted, timely manner. A go around procedure is not a stall recovery procedure!

[carusoam]

Long Body question:

Planning ahead should also include right rudder trim to T/O position?  (I'll be looking this up later...)

(Rudder is typically trimmed towards the left for keeping the ball centered during the descent.)

Wish list item: If the trim switch could sense pressure, a higher speed for nose down trim would be greatly appreciated.  One of these days, my thumb is going to remove the switch... 

Bestregards,

-a-

[DXB]

1 hour ago, Mooneymite said:

After many years of simulator training in various aircraft, I would make some "general observations" about the go around maneuver:

1.  The greatest/most common mistake made is rushing through the intitial steps of the procedure.

2.  Unless you're about to hit something, there is no reason to jam the power on.  You're just making control problems for yourself.

3.  Once you have the power in and have pitched to the appropriate speed, whether you get the gear up, flaps to half, flaps all the way up, forget the gear, or forget the gear and the flaps....whatever, probably isn't going to affect the ultimate outcome.  Losing control of the aircraft because you jam the power in and can't keep up with rudder and elevator probably will!

 If you're doing a single engine miss in a heavy twin in Aspen, yes!  Your procedures better be letter perfect, or you'll be having a granite sandwich.  In a Mooney at the average general aviation airport....just make sure you get the power in and pitch to airspeed.  Do all that other stuff in a slow, deliberate fashion, but fly the airplane!

4.  Doing approaches with partial flaps makes a go around much easier for a bunch of different reasons.

5.  Add power, adjust pitch, manage drag....

 

Excellent guidance - probably the single most helpful thing I've read on this go around topic.  Go arounds may not be that hard, but I've certainly made them hard on myself in the past by struggling with j-bar gear retraction when it wasn't a priority.  I agree with the message above to SIMPLIFY.  

To me, on my j-bar/hydraulic flap/carb'd Mooney, this means:

1. Power and right rudder smoothly in while letting the power bring the nose up to a climb attitude.

2. Trim off a bit of the need for forward pressure caused by the full flaps

3.  Don't worry about the gear.  Maintaining the < 85mph required for smooth, easy gear retraction is not a priority.

4. There's no detent to go from full to takeoff accurately on the hydraulic flaps, so it's probably best  to leave them alone and live with the minor drag penalty, then dump them all at once after a stable climb at decent speed is established, then readjust trim.

5. Maybe delay gear retraction until essential navigation and communication tasks are complete, then gently pitch for 80mph to get it up.  Or just leave it down if making a simple lap in the pattern.

6. Oh yeah carb heat.  I try to turn it off as part of my last GUMPS on short final, but I certainly forget sometimes.  When I've gone around and forgotten it, I don't notice a severe performance penalty, so it may be best just to double check it  later.  

So to summarize the essential:  1. Power/rudder/trim 2. After stable climb at decent speed, flaps up/trim  

So in the end, yes, it's simple.

[mike_elliott]

20 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Long Body question:

Planning ahead should also include right rudder trim to T/O position?  (I'll be looking this up later...)

(Rudder is typically trimmed towards the left for keeping the ball centered during the descent.)

Wish list item: If the trim switch could sense pressure, a higher speed for nose down trim would be greatly appreciated.  One of these days, my thumb is going to remove the switch... 

Bestregards,

-a-

Since the Go around is the "plan B", I wouldn't start the plan A with rudder trim for plan B. Just be aware that the Pfactor is such the plane will roll left with application of power and have your feet ready to play the correct game. A bounced landing, then go around this is real important, unless you own the STC for new Mooney wingtips.

[kmyfm20s]

Distant memory of mine but when I looked at  AOA indicators for general aviation they where set up for a particular flight configuration, usually landing. My assumption was that they where not accurate in other flight configuration. In reading the variation of go around procedures I can see a lot of potential error with AOA indicator.

[Robert C.]

I recognize the 1st half of the statement but not the 2nd.

My AoA is calibrated from stall to appr. 130kts (had preferred 110kts but it wouldn't take). So you are right about the setup being for slow flight and landing.

As the instrument doesn't show anything at all when I'm faster than the high calibration point there is no problem with accuracy or error potential.

Robert

[fantom]

It's just my way of flying, but when everything is going to poop, especially on takeoff, you best have a very good feel for your plane and basic airmanship. All the bells and whistles going off, the passengers questioning, if not screaming, and your $15K GPS's plus other gizmos flashing colors and giving you more alarms...will probably not help IMH experience.

Practice, training, planning beforehand, more training, serious practice, a cool head, and did I say professional training, just may save you, your bacon, and your family.

[steingar]

5 hours ago, Oldguy said:

When going into KDTS a while back, I was held up at altitude until only 4 miles out and then cleared to land straight in on RWY 14. Although I thought I did a good job of getting down to the runway, it was not as stable as it should have been. With a choice between a go-around or possible porpoise and prop strike, I chose the former. Throttle, rudder, pitch and a bit of trim to take pressure off the yoke. Gear up with positive climb rate, flaps half up at 300' and full up at 500' trimming all the time. Was very busy, but not unreasonably so. Didn't even think about the high-rise condos off the end of the runway.

Lesson? Thanks for the straight in, but I'll join the pattern. I'm the PIC. Same situation since then and no problem.

Haven't yet found the situation where a slip won't put me where I want to be.  In a full slip without power my Mooney descends quickly indeed.  Then again, I am still new to all this.

Not to criticize your course of action in the slightest, just offering up another (hopefully) relevant subject for the discussion.

[carl]

Todd is a friend of mine.

He was on his way up to St Louis.

He is canopyman on here ( he owns Todd's canopies)

I don't know what to do. 

 

carl

[mooniac15u]

38 minutes ago, carl said:

Todd is a friend of mine.

He was on his way up to St Louis.

He is canopyman on here ( he owns Todd's canopies)

I don't know what to do. 

 

carl

I'm so sorry for your loss. You should contact Mike Elliott @mike_elliott here on Mooneyspace. He has access to resources for the family. 

[mike_elliott]

Just now, mooniac15u said:

I'm so sorry for your loss. You should contact Mike Elliott @mike_elliott here on Mooneyspace. He has access to resources for the family. 

I just sent Carl a PM. We are all with a heavy heart as to the pain Todd, his family and friends are going thru. The kindness of the Mooney Community thru their donations to the Mooney Summit hopefully will allow us to help in some small way.

[mooniac15u]

Unfortunately, it appears that Todd did not make it. 

http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/32203084/names-of-collegedale-crash-victims-released

[201er]

1 hour ago, mooniac15u said:

Unfortunately, it appears that Todd did not make it. 

http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/32203084/names-of-collegedale-crash-victims-released

Really sad news.

[Tony Armour]

I had just seen that. I was really hoping it would turn out differently. 

[N5756v]

Damn. Prayers said and sent

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[carl]

Should I sell my Mooney ?

 I have known so many friends who crashed and died ,

I talked to Todd Thursday about his flight. he wanted three hour legs cause he didn't want to push it.

He gave me my first flight in his m 20 c back in the 90's .

 

I bought my E and then he wanted an E and he got his. 

I feel I am to blame. ( but if that is true then parrot wizzard is to blame cause he made me want ,GET,a mooney )

 

Monday a guy come into the hospital who tripped in his home and hit his head, He died. ( I am a RT)

so is the universe unfolding As it should or do we have any control ?

[Mcoyne34]

1 hour ago, carl said:

Should I sell my Mooney ?

 I have known so many friends who crashed and died ,

I talked to Todd Thursday about his flight. he wanted three hour legs cause he didn't want to push it.

He gave me my first flight in his m 20 c back in the 90's .

 

I bought my E and then he wanted an E and he got his. 

I feel I am to blame. ( but if that is true then parrot wizzard is to blame cause he made me want ,GET,a mooney )

 

Monday a guy come into the hospital who tripped in his home and hit his head, He died. ( I am a RT)

so is the universe unfolding As it should or do we have any control ?

Don't think about death, enjoy the one life you have. When it's your time to go, you'll go. Live your life the way you should and you have nothing to worry about. I personally don't think you have any control. Death is an Unpreventable thing in life  

 

It it is sad and somewhat discouraging seeing all the GA accidents this year, but I keep telling myself to enjoy this one life that I have. Live it to the fullest and do the things I want to do. 

Edited June 15, 2016 by Mcoyne34

[201er]

52 minutes ago, Mcoyne34 said:

Don't think about death, enjoy the one life you have. When it's your time to go, you'll go. Live your life the way you should and you have nothing to worry about. I personally don't think you have any control. Death is an Unpreventable thing in life  

What he said. And focus on flying by angle of attack when below 100kts.

[carl]

Yes, that's all we can do .

[Danb]

Carl, hang in there, life is tough. Ignore some of the insensitive remarks. I great friend of mine died a couple days ago, it's part of us. When you fly your plane your buddy will be looking down on you with a big smile for all the pleasure you brought him.

[steingar]

18 hours ago, carl said:

15 hours ago, carl said:

Should I sell my Mooney ?

 I have known so many friends who crashed and died ,

I talked to Todd Thursday about his flight. he wanted three hour legs cause he didn't want to push it.

He gave me my first flight in his m 20 c back in the 90's .

 

I bought my E and then he wanted an E and he got his. 

I feel I am to blame. ( but if that is true then parrot wizzard is to blame cause he made me want ,GET,a mooney )

 

Monday a guy come into the hospital who tripped in his home and hit his head, He died. ( I am a RT)

so is the universe unfolding As it should or do we have any control ?

 

Anybody can die at any time.  I'd rather die young doing the things I want than live to be an old man full of regrets.  All the same, so sorry for your loss.

[flyboy0681]

12 hours ago, Mcoyne34 said:

 When it's your time to go, you'll go.

I just don't want to be sitting next to a guy whose time has come.