Jump to content

Sandia SAI-340 Install PIREPs?

Tony_Hale

By Tony_Hale
in Avionics/Panel Discussion

 Share

Recommended Posts

Tony_Hale Rookie

Tony_Hale

Posted
Posted

I recently bought one of these (in time to ship it straight back for a software upgrade).  Plan is to move the AI gryo to an unused panel hole and put the Sandia front and center as primary.  Then if it proves to be reliable, remove the air gyro, pressure pump, and backup electric pressure pump.

Wondering if anyone has feedback on how the install went.  Already spoke to my IA who's doing the annual, and he's convinced these are only suitable for back-up status.  FAA says otherwise, but I didn't want to get into all that.

Pitot input, static input, power and ground, with a 2A CB....seems like a half day job or less.  What says the group?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
LANCECASPER Grand Master

LANCECASPER

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, kevinw said:

I just had one installed. It's about a five hour job. Looks and performs great!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

11 hours ago, FoxMike said:

I had Depot Avionics install mine before Christmas.  I took three hours and part of the time required was to move the GPS active light a smidgen.

We need pictures!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kevinw Proficient

kevinw

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, kevinw said: I just had one installed. It's about a five hour job. Looks and performs great!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

11 hours ago, FoxMike said: I had Depot Avionics install mine before Christmas.  I took three hours and part of the time required was to move the GPS active light a smidgen.

We need pictures!

945413b705106db7f56a610fd7d533ff.jpgThis is all I have now. I'll get more today.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
kevinw Proficient

kevinw

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, Tony_Hale said:

Kevin, have you found the airspeed, altitude and VS to match the Aspen?

It's very close. I'm going up today to play with it in more detail so I'll report back. Maybe I'll post some video.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kevinw Proficient

kevinw

Posted
Posted

When I had the SAI340 installed I had the vacuum system removed because all it powered was the backup AI that the 340 replaced. I got the plane back on Thursday and just yesterday I read an article in the Feb 2016 issue of The Aviation Consumer about the SAI340 and L3 Genesis. According to the article, neither of these units are legal backups to the Aspen PFD because the STC manaual reads that the standby electric AI must not rely on pitot and static air input for it's operation and both of these unit do. The logic being an iced pitot tube can take both systems down. I'm not sure I agree. An iced pitot tube would take down airspeed on both but not attitude, right? So the RCA2600 is legal because it has no altitude and airspeed but the 340 and L3 aren't if I'm understanding this correctly. If anyone has this magazine, it's on page 2. What do you guys think? The work has already been completed and signed off on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tony_Hale Rookie

Tony_Hale

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Kevin, I believe The Aviation Consumer is wrong on that.  The Sandia doesn't rely on pitot/static inputs to meet the TSO requirements.  It uses those inputs for more precise operation, and lacking those inputs it reverts to "degraded mode."  This degraded mode still provides sufficiently accurate attitude representation to permit safe flying.  There's a lot of hair splitting on this going on right now because of the language used in the Aspen STC.  I believe your install is legit--but that and $3 will get you a small coffee at Starbucks.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Marauder Grand Master

Marauder

Posted
Posted
When I had the SAI340 installed I had the vacuum system removed because all it powered was the backup AI that the 340 replaced. I got the plane back on Thursday and just yesterday I read an article in the Feb 2016 issue of The Aviation Consumer about the SAI340 and L3 Genesis. According to the article, neither of these units are legal backups to the Aspen PFD because the STC manaual reads that the standby electric AI must not rely on pitot and static air input for it's operation and both of these unit do. The logic being an iced pitot tube can take both systems down. I'm not sure I agree. An iced pitot tube would take down airspeed on both but not attitude, right? So the RCA2600 is legal because it has no altitude and airspeed but the 340 and L3 aren't if I'm understanding this correctly. If anyone has this magazine, it's on page 2. What do you guys think? The work has already been completed and signed off on.

Kevin -- the actual FAA document states that does not allow for these replacement AIs to contain other multi-functions other than the attitude indication and the turn and bank, based on that document, it is not legal.

If it were, my secondary Aspen 1000 would meet all these requirements. Unfortunately it doesn't. So I am stuck with the vacuum AI unless I go with an electric unit that meets the current regulation. I'm not sure why airspeed or altitude would be an issue, but that is how it is written. I will look up the doc. It was posted here somewhere.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Marauder Grand Master

Marauder

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, N601RX said:

This has been discussed in depth on Beechtalk within depth clarification from Peter who was one of the founders of. Aspen. He also set on the committee that drew up most of the relevant rules. 

And? :) I would think since an Aspen 2000 system could function as this, was the FAA issued document from September changed?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Marauder Grand Master

Marauder

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=112613

 

Well that was, as one of the posters indicated "clear as mud". It looks like it can be used as a backup to an Aspen PFD because Aspen updated their STC to include it as an acceptable backup. garmin has not done so already, so if you own a G500/600 you cannot until they update their STC. One poster also indicated that the Sandia documentation shows it can be primary. Which then begs the question, does it require a backup like the Aspen and Garmin units? Clear as mud it is... :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kevinw Proficient

kevinw

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Here is the link to the FAA document published in September: http://download.aopa.org/advocacy/PS-ACE-23-08.pdf?_ga=1.69733912.988664765.1454171163

Look under the "Policy" section, item 1.

I'm interpreting this a little differently. It reads:  A single function vacuum-driven attitude indicator may also be replaced with an electronically-driven attitude indicator that provides a secondary (advisory) function (such as turn & slip indication). The "such as" tells me that altitude and airspeed are also "advisory" functions and therefore I'm within the requirements. In any case I want it to be legal. I plan on talking to the installer next week. In regard to your second Aspen, I was told by my installer that it qualifies as backup as long as a standby battery backup is also installed. He doesn't believe the backup battery included with the Aspen qualifies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Marauder Grand Master

Marauder

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Marauder said: Here is the link to the FAA document published in September: http://download.aopa.org/advocacy/PS-ACE-23-08.pdf?_ga=1.69733912.988664765.1454171163

Look under the "Policy" section, item 1.

I'm interpreting this a little differently. It reads:  A single function vacuum-driven attitude indicator may also be replaced with an electronically-driven attitude indicator that provides a secondary (advisory) function (such as turn & slip indication). The "such as" tells me that altitude and airspeed are also "advisory" functions and therefore I'm within the requirements. In any case I want it to be legal. I plan on talking to the installer next week. In regard to your second Aspen, I was told my my installer that it qualifies as backup as long as a standby battery backup is also installed. He doesn't believe the backup battery included with the Aspen qualifies.

I know with the second Aspen, if I purchased the extended battery for the MFD, I can remove my ASI and altimeter. Wonder if that extends to the AI?

I think the verbiage "advisory" is intended to be a non critical flight instrument. Airspeed and altimeter are primary.

Did your installer re-do the IFR cert after installing? Anytime the static system is opened, I believe it needs to be re-checked for at least leaks.

Let us know what your installer says about all this. I'm going to call mine on Monday to talk ADS-B and will ask as well.

It truly is muddy...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kevinw Proficient

kevinw

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I know with the second Aspen, if I purchased the extended battery for the MFD, I can remove my ASI and altimeter. Wonder if that extends to the AI?

I think the verbiage "advisory" is intended to be a non critical flight instrument. Airspeed and altimeter are primary.

Did your installer re-do the IFR cert after installing? Anytime the static system is opened, I believe it needs to be re-checked for at least leaks.

Let us know what your installer says about all this. I'm going to call mine on Monday to talk ADS-B and will ask as well.

It truly is muddy...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don't know about the re-cert. I need to read the logs but I sure hope so. I'm far from an expert (as you all can probably tell) but he had to have cut into the pitot lines and add a T. One would think a leak test would follow. Thanks for the help on this. I'll let you guys know what I hear next week. He's currently out from rotator cuff surgery so I'm not sure how available he will be but I'll pass on info as I get it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kevinw Proficient

kevinw

Posted
Posted

So I went up today and played around with the SIA340 a bit. It performs very well. I'm impressed with the resolution of the display. I think once the smoke clears and we all know definitively whether or not this can be used as a backup to the Aspen and G500 I think it's going to be very popular. You'll see from the video that the airspeed is just a hair off from the Aspen but the altitude is 35 ft off. I went into the settings once on the ground and corrected for both so now they should match. Next flight will tell for sure. What surprised me the most is the fuel flow in the 830. I knew it was reading too high burning 12.5 gal/hr in cruise. After I landed it showed that I burned 18.5 gal total. When I topped it off I put in 15.9 gal. I do the math and the K-factor goes from 29.34 to 34.16. Can that be right? I thought this number sits between 29.00 and 31.00. Weird. One last thing. As I was putting my plane back in the hanger a G-V landed. I get everything squared away and as I'm leaving this it sitting there. It's Hillary Clinton's ride. Can't say I'm a Hillary fan but that's a big ship for KCIN. cfbb112d4d89cdcc4e6979b9269b592c.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.