Need help with 201 value.

[Lood]

I need some advice - again, please. I don't have access to the Blue Book and some local guys have their own ideas when it comes to pricing airplanes. I'm going to list the spec of a 201 I'm interested in and would like a ball park figure of what it would be selling for in the US - approximately:

1980 model, TTAF 3300 hours, engine SMOH 1000 hours, two bladed Hartzell prop 200 hours since new, interior 8/10, extrior 8/10

Avionics: KR24 audio panel, KX155 nav/comm, KY97 Comm, KR87 ADF, KT76A transponder, KN64 DME, Garmin 150 GPS, WX-8 stormscope, Century 2 autopilot with S-Tec alt hold, EDM800 engine analyzer.

I'm not sure about it's damage history, but it was and is very well maintained and looked after and it has no corrosion . Looking forward to your replies.

[Carl S]

I am getting about $76,811 in the basic AOPA version of Vref.  

[Matt]

Hi Lood,

Surprise, surprise!! - Me here!!! - Got signed up and am now doing some more Mooney R & D

As a broker, we have the BB to calculate the BB value - Here Goes:

So, with your specs and equipment list, excl the EDM800 - and not adding any value for the lower time airframe, I get to $82050 + import costs.

Our "normal" import costs from "Oom Jeff" is approx R50k(min) + import C of A of R35k Based on a C172 type - With the one piece Mooney wing - may be a little more? May need to add on R10k to R15k extra.

So $82,050 X R/US$ @ R7-00 + R85k + an estimated "Kitty for surpises" of say R25K = R684,550 + VAT @ 110% of R574,350 = R88,450

Total Landed Cost INCL VAT = R773,000

If you do it all yourself you are in for say R775,000 - How does this compare to the seller's asking price?

Remember, we have a real buyer's market, so BB valuation, may be a bit generous to the seller??

However, this is based on a straight purchase cost at BB in the US, and you have located her without cost (Web based), so excludes:

Telephone calls to seller Q&A, negotiations, etc

a pre-purchase,

title search,

Ferry flight to CA to Jeff to pack (Est at least $1500++, which is location dependant - Or you ferry her across the N/Atlantic route?? - Have no idea on practicality or costs for this  - Probably better to box her up - ?

Escrow fees,

+ you pay up front, and wait 6 to 8 weeks before you open the container, and actually see what you bought (Or you add R30k to R45k to fly to the US to see for yourself!! - and hope you like it when ou get there, or have a few lined up in a reasonably close by area - or at a Mooney specialist dealer/See the guys listed in the M20C, E, F and G flight test reports)

Drop me a pm with your thoughts on this option - do you have pics of her?

Is she one of Pat's machines?

Hope this helps

Rgds

Matt

 

 

[Lood]

Thanks for your replies. I guessed it at $80k, so I wasn't too far out it seems.

Matt, it's not one of Pat's airplanes and I only got word through the airwaves that it "might" be for sale. So, for the time being, I'd like to keep all the info that I have on it to myself untill I've contacted the owner personally.

Regarding the import cost, my thoughts, as a buyer, are as follows: Everybody in SA wants whatever their airplane is worth - in US Dollars, which is fair. But now, they immediately add the import costs, which is between $25-30k on a Mooney BTW, to their selling price.
What people do not keep in mind however, is for them to get their US $ selling price alone, the airplane has to be sold in the US and the ferry cost is the same, both ways. IAW, if you sell your airplane for $80k, in effect you'll only get $50k for it after you've ferried it back to the US. AND, most current airplane owners bought their airplanes locally.
Maybe they fell for the "import costs" tale, but they never imported the airplane in the first place. I also don't think it will work trying to sell a $80k Mooney in the US for $110k to try and recover the ferry costs.
In the US, airplanes generally seems to sell for what they're worth and I am more than happy to pay a premium on a local airplane that I can see and testfly for myself and have MPI'd at the AMO of my choice, but I'm not prepared to pay R200k plus, just because that's what it would cost to import it.
I think it should be split, but like the saying goes: The seller always feels he didn't get enough and the buyer always feels he paid too much.

On second thoughts, I think if it's worth $80k in the US, that's what it should sell for anywhere else in the world, because the first importer already paid for the import and all the ferry costs. It should'nt be charged everytime the airplane change owners.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[Matt]

Hi Lood,

Well put and agree with you all the way

The import cost add-on was to provide the "worst case"/most expensive alternative to the local opportunity

The pic as my avatar is the nose-on view of the "project M20F" FYI

Looks like Re Riche's LPA was the one to go for - we'll see how his deal goes, from the sidelines

We win some and we learn some

Rgds

Matt

 

 

[Carl S]

Just curious, what kind of route would one take if ferrying a Mooney down from Europe. I am guessing Morroco as a point of entry onto the continent but then what? Follow the west coast down? It does not look like there is much south or Marrakech that is within range. An internal long range tank might add another 60 gallons and that could get one across the Western Sahara/Algeria/Mauritania/Mali region. That is a long time to be over desert.

[Lood]

Many come down the east coast: Kairo, Dar Es Salaam, Nariobi, Malawi, Zambia, Zimbabwe/ Botswana/ Mozambique, etc. Although some come down west, I think apart from Namibia, Avgas is a bigger problem. Not sure though.

IIRC, if you ferry it in from the US, a 16 hour endurance is one of the requirements - might be route dependant? An Ovation has been flown here from the US via South America without any ferry tanks, though. That says a lot about Mooney effeciency. I've considered it in the past, but unfortunately, I'm not IF rated. I think it should be a fun thing to do as a once off.
I think that from Europe, that kind of endurance won't be necesary.

[Lood]

Many come down the east coast: Kairo, Dar Es Salaam, Nariobi, Malawi, Zambia, Zimbabwe/ Botswana/ Mozambique, etc. Although some come down west, I think apart from Namibia, Avgas is a bigger problem. Not sure though.

IIRC, if you ferry it in from the US, a 16 hour endurance is one of the requirements - might be route dependant? An Ovation has been flown here from the US via South America without any ferry tanks, though. That says a lot about Mooney effeciency. I've considered it in the past, but unfortunately, I'm not IF rated. I think it should be a fun thing to do as a once off.
I think that from Europe, that kind of endurance won't be necesary.

[DaV8or]

Quote: Lood

Many come down the east coast: Kairo, Dar Es Salaam, Nariobi, Malawi, Zambia, Zimbabwe/ Botswana/ Mozambique, etc. Although some come down west, I think apart from Namibia, Avgas is a bigger problem. Not sure though.

[Lood]

Quote: DaV8or

Wow. At what point does it make sense to take it apart and put it in a box?

[carusoam]

"The seller always feels he didn't get enough and the buyer always feels he paid too much."

Lood, I think you defined the "fair deal"

- everybody is equally unhappy about the price, the seller is happy that the plane is sold, the buyer is happy about acquiring the plane.  Sounds fair to me.

-a-

[Lood]

True. In my case , for instance, I obviously have to sell my 'F before I can buy a J and I would like to sell mine for maximum Dollar. In US $ terms, that would be somewhere around $60k, which in SA Rands is a mere R400k. That's way too little taking into account that M20J's go for at least double that, here.Generally, a good M20F will fetch around $85k here in SA and M20J's go for around $125k plus.

So, the sword cut's both ways. Bottom line: "Talk is cheap, but money buy's the Whisky". I've been spending some time on the net and there are quite a few M20J's in the $80-90k range that looks really good.

[Carl S]

Quote: Lood

Many come down the east coast: Kairo, Dar Es Salaam, Nariobi, Malawi, Zambia, Zimbabwe/ Botswana/ Mozambique, etc. Although some come down west, I think apart from Namibia, Avgas is a bigger problem. Not sure though.

IIRC, if you ferry it in from the US, a 16 hour endurance is one of the requirements - might be route dependant? An Ovation has been flown here from the US via South America without any ferry tanks, though. That says a lot about Mooney effeciency. I've considered it in the past, but unfortunately, I'm not IF rated. I think it should be a fun thing to do as a once off.

I think that from Europe, that kind of endurance won't be necesary.