Gear failed to retract today - thoughts??

[irishpilot]

Hey all,

I am the proud new owner of a '65 M20E and it is a great XC plane.  However, I took the family to fly today and the gear failed to retract.  The green light stayed on and there was no movement on the floor indicator.  It worked yesterday no problem so I'm not sure what it is.  I checked the circuit breaker next to the manual gear extension.  I also made sure the manual unlock was seated properly.  Nothing worked.  Any ideas?? I'm either thinking a bad switch or motor.  I tested on two separate flights and there was no change.  I plan to fly it back home tomorrow with the gear down (sucks because it will add a lot of time in the air) so I can get my A&P to troubleshoot.   

[Mooneymite]

Does the gear motor run? 

Does the intermittent horn sound with the gear handle up and the gear down?

Any other symptoms?

If you hear the gear motor run, but the gear doesn't retract, you probably have drive gear problems.  In any case, leave the gear down and don't try to retract it again until you get it home!

If the gear motor doesn't run, it might be the WOW switch, or an airspeed switch if your aircraft has such.  The early Mooney electric gear changed over the years, so without a manual for your particular year/serial #, it's hard to know what to suggest.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Mooneymite

[Cruiser]

Did you hear a warning horn when you tried to retract the gear?

Not sure what you refer to as "manual lock" but you should have a manual gear extension on the floor behind the trim wheel. If the cover lever is not firmly latched in place with the short metal latch on the front side, the gear will not retract. (common problem)

There are other switches including the air pressure switch on the airspeed indicator in the circuit that could cause this.

[irishpilot]

It's a 65 M20E. The manual gear extension is on the side by my left leg. There was no gear whine or sound and there was no horn. I also checked it at idle when troubleshooting. It's just weird it worked yesterday and then nothing today.

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[Mooneymite]

I suspect it's just an electrical switch that isn't doing what it's supposed to.  Once it's safely up on jacks, it won't be hard to figure out if you have a schematic.

Being away from home, the prime issue will be to make sure the gear is "down and locked" for the trip home.  The higher you fly home, the lower the indicated airspeed and the less the paracitic drag from the gear.

[slowflyin]

Was airspeed indicating normal.  My F failed to retract during a pito static problem.     Pressure switch thinks your still on the ground of the AS is low.

[irishpilot]

Airspeed was normal went up to 100 mph when I was troubleshooting. I have a ways to fly tomorrow with the gear down. Anyone done this? I am assuming a long rang cruise like 1900 will keep me below 120?

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[goterminal120]

Ask yourself.......is it legal to fly with a known deficiency with out a ferry permit

[Hector]

I would fly as high as practical with the gear down.

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[DonMuncy]

Ask yourself.......is it legal to fly with a known deficiency with out a ferry permit

A pita, yes. A deficiency, not in my opinion. I fly a lot with my gear firmly down. Every time I take off and land.

[carusoam]

A POH with an electrical drawing would be really helpful to identify switches and their locations...

my 65C had that overly simple J bar. So I don't know if the POH has that update in it...

best regards,

-a-

[Guitarmaster]

Sounds like up-limit switch or the actual gear handle switch.  If the limit portion of the up limit switch doesn't close when the gear is down, the circuit isn't completed and it will just sit there.  

[WardHolbrook]

A pita, yes. A deficiency, not in my opinion. I fly a lot with my gear firmly down. Every time I take off and land.

OK, I get that it's a PITA and of course, the airplane is still totally flyable, but it's legally unairworthy when the gear is inoperative. If you intentionally fly an unairworthy airplane you are subject to sanctions if the FAA finds out about it. Then there's the issue of insurance ramifications if something where to happen during the flight. FWIW, I had the same issue a couple of years ago and getting a ferry permit for the flight was straight forward. 

[Marauder]

As others have mentioned, there are two possible types of safety interconnects to prevent gear retraction. Most likely you have a mechanical squat switch that is in the wheel well (left one I think). How it works is simple, when you take the weight off of the gear, the rubber donuts on that wheel expand and compress the switch. This then allows the gear motor to energize. It may be a simple sticking switch.

The other type of safety switch is an airspeed switch that is configured to reach a certain airspeed before the gear motor can be energized.

When my gear failed to retract, it was due to extremely cold conditions which wouldn't let the rubber donut expand to make contact. Mooney offered a retrofit bypass kit for allowing the pilot in the cockpit to override the safety switch.

Here is what it looks like. If your plane has one of these, you can press it to allow the gear to come up.

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[gsxrpilot]

Gonna say it, I don't have that switch, but don't need it with the J bar :-)

[HRM]

I am the proud new owner of a '65 M20E and it is a great XC plane.  

Yes, E's are great. Some are Super.

I hope this is not the dreaded spring problem. 

The so-called clutch back spring.

IIRC, when this spring breaks and the gear is down, the gear stays down.

When this spring breaks and the gear is up, the gear stays up.

[irishpilot]

Thanks all for the input. It helps me narrow down places to look. We are gonna throw it on Jacks and see what we find.

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[Marauder]

Good luck and let us know what you find.

[N201MKTurbo]

That happened to me once. One of the brushes fell out of the gear motor.

[Guest]

You could just file your flight plan as a D model and no one will suspect anything.

Clarence

[irishpilot]

I've got the plane back to KMGM (home base) and I'm going to help my A&P troubleshoot Tuesday. I'll have an update then. 

[CCowboy]

If it is not the airspeed switch or the gear switch, look into the up relay. There are 2 identical relays, one for down, one for up.  These can fail and could be the reason the gear did not retract.  Let us know the outcome of your diagnostics.

[irishpilot]

Status update: the aircraft is on Jacks and the gear went up at random airspeeds and not consistently . The last time, they couldn't get the gear up until over 85 mph. That seems like the airspeed switch is malfunctioning. Has anyone else seen that?

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[carusoam]

Can your mechanic pull and clean the Air speed switch?

seems to be the culprit.

best regards,

-a-

Edited September 23, 2015 by carusoam

[Marauder]

Status update: the aircraft is on Jacks and the gear went up at random airspeeds and not consistently . The last time, they couldn't get the gear up until over 85 mph. That seems like the airspeed switch is malfunctioning. Has anyone else seen that?

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How did they check for it at different air speeds? Before I looked at replacing the switch, check for leaks on the tubing on and around the airspeed switch.

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