Purchase a C, E or J?

[DXB]

 

(If you're not in a rush, I'm an old man, who knows when Nancy will be putting my E on the market.)

That's a sweet panel that many would covet -  don't give ideas to any bargain-hunting sociopaths out there who might be shopping for a Mooney .  I hope you get to fly it until your avionics are antiquated junk.

[carl]

I am sorry 

Hank and Bob 's panels have ruined the breed .

You only need one or two instruments , altititude and and a Loran , thats what mine has . 

really we need more information  about you ?

Where are you ? what you want to do with it ,your mission ... or forget it just get an E . 

[Marauder]

The later F's have the same panel as the J. I'd challenge anyone to tell if I have an F or J from a picture of my panel.

Agreed on the autopilot and GPS. You lose money the moment you put it in, much cheaper to buy with it in. The engine monitor isn't very difficult to install and honestly I wouldn't fly without one. In fact I had one engine failure that I may not have made an airport if the engine monitor didn't tell me things were starting to go south and started flashing at me.

 

-Robert

Robert is correct, except for the 1974 F, the 1975 - 1977 F models (yes they made some Fs in 1977) have the same panel as first Js. Here is a picture of my F's panel before I added glass.

 

 

[ryoder]

I actually dream of taking off and retracting the gear manually and I am not kidding.  It's one of life's little pleasures.

As an A&P you could buy a C or E with some expensive speed mods and an autopilot but runout engine and do the engine, paint, and interior yourself and have something really nice for a low price.  

[Marauder]

I am sorry 

Hank and Bob 's panels have ruined the breed .

You only need one or two instruments , altititude and and a Loran , thats what mine has . 

Ok, I'm piling on (and without a fat woman involved)

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[steingar]

I went for the manual gear, and even with all the trouble I've had adjusting to it I wouldn't want anything else.  Not likely to forget that.  I think back seats in airplanes are overrated, I hardly ever use mine.  Of course, I'm tiny little man, so I actually have one.

 

I think the whole "I have to have a standard panel" is a bogus thing dreamed up by non-airplane owners.  You very quickly get used to the airplane you fly.  I can understand it if you fly more than one airplane.  Sadly, I've never had the wherewithal to own one and fly another, and am envious of those who do.

[bonal]

By comparison to B26's my panel is a mess but for me it's second nature and like an old friend the important thing is to know it without thinking about it. 

[mike_elliott]

I went for the manual gear, and even with all the trouble I've had adjusting to it I wouldn't want anything else.  Not likely to forget that.  

 

It is amazing how many people have forgot to put the Manual gear down, the number might even be higher than forgetting to put the electric gear down. Don Maxwell once told me he has done a lot more gear up repairs on manual gear mooneys than electric. Granted, you have an opportunity to have the actuator fail that you don't with a manual gear, but you have the manual gear possibility of slipping out of a lock block as we have read hear recently.

With warning horns, lights, training etc, we sometimes still screw this up.

[gsxrpilot]

I sure like the manual gear. I like to KNOW it's locked. I'm not relying on hearsay that it's locked from lights, horn, etc. But I can actually pull on the gear with my hand and know it's down and locked. And after a couple of hundred hours, the muscle memory has developed to the point, it takes no effort at all to move it up or down. I just handle the latching and it almost moves its self.

[urbanti]

Todd:  You can get a nice vintage Mooney for much less than $60k.  It will be difficult for you to get a nice M201 (J) for $60k.

If you get a decent deal on a M20E, you will have the fastest of the stock vintage Mooneys, clearly outperform all other similarly priced aircraft (eg Arrows). You will also get awesome short field takeoff performance.  

To me, if you have $50k or less, and you want performance, the vintage Mooneys are a no-brainer.

If you decide to move up to the J price bracket, i.e. $70-$120, you're looking at a super nice plane but there are also other nice planes you can find at that bracket that you should look at as well (e.g. Debonnaires and V-Tails, Commanches, etc).

Good luck

Tim

[RobertGary1]

I sure like the manual gear. I like to KNOW it's locked. I'm not relying on hearsay that it's locked from lights, horn, etc. But I can actually pull on the gear with my hand and know it's down and locked. And after a couple of hundred hours, the muscle memory has developed to the point, it takes no effort at all to move it up or down. I just handle the latching and it almost moves its self.

I've never had my gear switch pop out of position on landing though.

 

-Robert

[Hank]

I sure like the manual gear. I like to KNOW it's locked. I'm not relying on hearsay that it's locked from lights, horn, etc.

If you've ever ridden in an electric-gear Vintage Mooney, there is no doubt when the gear goes up. The thump! in the seat of your pants is unmistakable. Same when it goes down, there's another pretty good thump. I always wait for the thump when moving gear before doing anything else, then confirm the feeling with the little light. 

[Mooneymite]

I sure like the manual gear. I like to KNOW it's locked. I'm not relying on hearsay that it's locked from lights, horn, etc.

I'm not sure about later model Mooney's electric gear, but on my C with electric gear, the gear is almost identical to the manual gear with the exception of the drive mechanism.  While there is a green light up by the gear handle when the gear is locked down, there is also a little window in the floor that actually shows the movement of the gear mechanism....when the gear is down, there are two green lines that align and provide that "extra level of confidence".

So, when the gear is down, it is "Green light, green stripe".

Edited September 9, 2015 by Mooneymite

[RobertGary1]

And when you do the manual extension at annual you spend a lot of time looking at the manual floor indicator waiting for those lines to line up. Preload is tested right at the point the lines line up, which may even be before the gear down light comes on (very slightly).

 

-Robert

[rbridges]

obviously, price is no issue, I'd go with the J.  I think it's one of the best all around airplanes IMO.  Of course, I don't do short/rough fields or haul tons of stuff.  Unfortunately, I was in your situation and 60K was about as much as I wanted to go without a partner.  I wanted to be able to comfortably afford the plane instead of grounding it at the first unexpected expense.  Anyway, I landed a pretty nice "C" model.  Personally, Id rather have nicely spec'd vintage plane than a J model with dated avionics, questionable history, whatever.

[Jerry 5TJ]

....You only need one or two instruments , altititude and and a Loran , thats what mine has . ......

Which Loran chain are you receiving these days?

[carl]

 

I must not be operating it properly, it doesn't pick up anything.

But really I have an old loran , I will get rid of it soon.

[Marauder]

If you've ever ridden in an electric-gear Vintage Mooney, there is no doubt when the gear goes up. The thump! in the seat of your pants is unmistakable. Same when it goes down, there's another pretty good thump. I always wait for the thump when moving gear before doing anything else, then confirm the feeling with the little light. 

Oh, oh... Mine doesn't do the "thump" thingy.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Marauder]

Which Loran chain are you receiving these days?

I thought the only one left was the one on Mars...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ArtVandelay]

A lot of this is classic "love the one your with". Decide what's important to you, but given your price range, I agree C or E is what you should look at.

[MyNameIsNobody]

Awesome,  The guy wants help/input on why a C or E and the thread devolves into a manual hater vs. electric hater thread...and a "My panel is more awesome...er" than yours thread.

 

For the record I have ZERO confirmation that the manual gear thread failure was as a result of the gear "popping out" of the gear block...vs. pilot error (pulling down on bar after "locked" to confirm AND confirming the green down light is lit.

 

With regard to geear ups and "forgetting the gear"...I loved in another thread when I stated that having an audible gear and stall nanny is a no-brainer positive...That the guy "pulled it out" as unnecessary from his plane.

 

Different strokes...

On second thought why get a great deal on a J when it had a gear up 25 years in the past?  Even if logbooks are there and inspection "pre-buy" could easily be completed.  

 

Different strokes...

 

Good luck in your search.  (Mechanical failure is MUCH more likely in an electric gear plane)  Repair/replacement and upkeep of an electric gear is significantly higher than a manual gear plane.  Pilots of both electric and manual gear planes are both adept at inadvertantly shining their bellies...Statistically higher percentage from vintage because there are more of them and more low time transitioning pilots fly them...

[bonal]

My first post on this thread was my true points and I got sucked into the game play. To stay on point I think the E is the best choice based on you budget and speed requirements I like the short body since I have no need for a big airplane. As for trust I prefer the manual gear manual flaps and the simplicity of a simple carburetor. I think for 60 grand you could fine a real nice E

[Shadrach]

Great post David!

Just a few clarifications on the F:

One piece windscreen came in 1968.

All F's and J's came with 64gals usable, but extended tanks are available for both.

From the very first model in 1966 the F had a MGW OF 2740lbs

In terms of payload/range the manual gear F is likely the best of the breed as most have a real world useful load of over 1000lbs. I'm at 1060lbs. If I really went to town on the panel and replaced the generator with an alternator, I could get mine pretty close 1075lbs.

I can think of no other certified 200hp bird that will take as much....as far... as fast.

[Sqrtree]

Lots of good info everyone. I guess my hesitation with the manual gear is just familiarity. Over the years I got used to the gear handle doing all the work. Im definately open to the manual gear if the right bird comes for sale. With a combination of some speed mods and a nice panel Im going to shoot for an E. Once I get past that hurdle then it will be onto ADS-B.

[carl]

well I've been thinking ,really an A&P can do anything .. find something that may need work . you can do it !

EAJ Salvage 2009 Video DRAFT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOwQuQfquRI

This is a draft video for a Kenn Borek Air and ALCI presentation for a DROMLAN meeting. It gives a brief overview of the salvage mission for a crash landed DC-3 named Mia. The crash site was at a remote location in Queen Maude Land Antarctica at a height of over 3,300 meters.