How many times do you check gear down?

[Yetti]

My transition instructor was.  "Hey isn't there a plane in the pattern"  I start looking.   Instructor pulls breaker.  Then waits.   Then asks another question on gear down point at threshold.  I caught it at base that the gear was not down.  Reached over and pushed the breaker in.  Gave him the "ha ha that was funny"  look.

[Marauder]

I have a question. Please educate me.

Barring equipment failure or being too lazy refusing to use the written pre landing checklist is there another good reason or excuse I'm missing for the gear not to be down?

Is there something more pressing than going through the pre landing checklist during...pre landing???

Isn't our checklist our CRM during critical phases of the flight?

Peter it is all about a breakdown in the routine. Distractions are a good part of this. If you fly with me, I have a sterile cockpit rule that I invoke when I am at pattern altitude or before I'm cleared for an approach.

It is also why I like flying with the CFII I do. He is a chatter box and I have had to tell him shut up more than once on an IPC. I think he now does it during an approach to an airport just to get me to tell him to shut up.

As for distractions. Picture you are being vectored to an approach, the weather is iffy, it's raining, you're high due to conflicting traffic and the vector to the final approach course looks like it will take you through it. On top of that, you are almost at the FAF and it looks like the glideslope is below you. It's easy to get distracted.

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[fantom]

Please educate me.

Barring equipment failure or being too lazy refusing to use the written pre landing checklist is there another good reason or excuse I'm missing for the gear not to be down?

Is there something more pressing than going through the pre landing checklist during...pre landing???

Isn't our checklist our CRM during critical phases of the flight?

 

While the full education request begs the issue of ability, retention, understanding and so on.....there are more pressing concerns at times, and laziness is way down on the list, and more than a bit insulting to those 'who have'.

 

Another plane in front of you, a sick passenger, some piece of Garmin junk going haywire, smoke in the cabin, micro weather interference....potential distractions are endless.

 

Your eyes, brain, and experience are your CRM last line of defense, not some checklist, IMHO.

[Shadrach]

Check lists are not "to do" lists in my opinion. They are for verifying that your workflow was completed without interruption.  Any before landing checklist in a Mooney should be dirt simple.    Mine could be edited down to GUS. 

 

Gas

Undercarriage

Seatbelts

[peevee]

every few flights I pull the power, then drop the flaps before dropping the gear just to check the warning horn. Usually it still startles me.

[Shadrach]

I often hear my gear horn. not because I've forgotten the gear, but because I don't typically slow down 10 miles out.  I come off the throttle as I come into the pattern.  I try to remember to enrichen to around 1200df and thats the mixture position I land with. I usually drop the gear abeam the numbers. If I am too fast, my hand stays on the johnson bar until I'm down to gear speed and does not leave until it's down and locked

[ArtVandelay]

Check lists are not "to do" lists in my opinion. They are for verifying that your workflow was completed without interruption. Any before landing checklist in a Mooney should be dirt simple. Mine could be edited down to GUS.

Gas

Undercarriage

Seatbelts

I made up (because I forgot something):

Prop

Lights

Undercarriage

Gas

Flaps

Autopilot

Radio

Mixture

[DXB]

I often hear my gear horn. not because I've forgotten the gear, but because I don't typically slow down 10 miles out.  I come off the throttle as I come into the pattern.  I try to remember to enrichen to around 1200df and thats the mixture position I land with. I usually drop the gear abeam the numbers. If I am too fast, my hand stays on the johnson bar until I'm down to gear speed and does not leave until it's down and locked

I rarely land without hearing the gear horn at some point.  I don't wait as long as described above to drop the gear- usually try to time it for 30-60 seconds before entering downwind.  After descending at MP of 20, I level off around 300-500 ft above TPA, then pull the throttle back further and level off- horn will start blaring at MP of 18 usually - does this mean the horn switch is out of adjustment?  I'm pretty far aft on the throttle at this point, so maybe not.  Still it feels like an eternity for IAS to go from around 130-140mph to 120 so I can drop the gear.   I then tug down neurotically on the johnson bar a few times on downwind, base, and final. I'm not worried that not down at this point (seems I could have never slowed adequately otherwise), but rather that the sleeve is locked up (a habit formed from difficulties getting sleeve to lock during my transition training).  

[midlifeflyer]

If not a checklist issue then what kind of issue is it? Because its on the checklist in black and white.

 

And the gear lever is right there in line of sight. And the process of adding drag to slow down  is the most normal part of flying I can think of. And the blare of a loud warning device is even designed to grab your attention when you are not paying attention. 

 

It's a distraction issue. Checklist use is as subject to distraction and simple human error as anything else. Maybe more so for most pilots.

 

Are you thinking that pilot don't lower the gear on a retract they fly 200 hours a year without a checklist? Or than pilot who regularly use a checklist can never have a gear incident? If you are, I'll simply disagree,

[Yetti]

I have (was given) (about 15 hours in a complex)   MP to 15.  On threshold check airspeed, if high pull up, slow down, gear down,  Then gumps.  Always gear down on threshold.    For straight ins,here will have to be a new "always gear down point"

[midlifeflyer]

I rarely land without hearing the gear horn at some point.  I don't wait as long as described above to drop the gear- usually try to time it for 30-60 seconds before entering downwind.  After descending at MP of 20, I level off around 300-500 ft above TPA, then pull the throttle back further and level off- horn will start blaring at MP of 18 usually - does this mean the horn switch is out of adjustment?  I'm pretty far aft on the throttle at this point, so maybe not.  Still it feels like an eternity for IAS to go from around 130-140mph to 120 so I can drop the gear.   I then tug down neurotically on the johnson bar a few times on downwind, base, and final. I'm not worried that not down at this point (seems I could have never slowed adequately otherwise), but rather that the sleeve is locked up (a habit formed from difficulties getting sleeve to lock during my transition training).  

It could mean you should consider whether you should be further ahead of the airplane in terms of planning power reductions to begin the process of slowing down further out.

 

But if you are getting the gear warning at 18" MP, it might mean it is out of adjustment. 14-15 inches is pretty standard. I've rarely had to go below 16-17" to get down to the speed I want for gear extension unless I was expediting a descent.

[jetdriven]

Check lists are not "to do" lists in my opinion. They are for verifying that your workflow was completed without interruption.  Any before landing checklist in a Mooney should be dirt simple.    Mine could be edited down to GUS. 

 

Gas

Undercarriage

Seatbelts

 

Airlines have very few, as in zero, gear ups.  It is because the gear down, landing checklist is a flow backed up by a check list.  In the 201 the check list is printed on the panel. So throw the gear, make sure it lights green, put down the flaps, adjust power, trim. But that is all flow, procedure, and technique.

 

Mine is simple as well, gear down abeam the numbers, when the Aera alerts "five hundred" or turning final, verify the gear and flaps are down, and the mixture and prop are set for go-around. That is all.

 

the 737 landing checklist is speed brake armed, gear down three green, and flaps __

 

so was the 747-400.

[midlifeflyer]

I have (was given) (about 15 hours in a complex)   MP to 15.  On threshold check airspeed, if high pull up, slow down, gear down,  Then gumps.  Always gear down on threshold.    For straight ins,here will have to be a new "always gear down point"

 

I don't generally describe it (mostly because I don;t want people to change what already works) but since you are looking for a "new" point to consider, this is my procedure:  For VFR, my gear down point is within 3 miles of the airport and at pattern altitude. "Normal" pattern, base entry, crossover pattern, straight in. It doesn't matter. It's become almost second nature and it even requires me to consider putting the gear down pretty far out since I need to be at the right airspeed once I get there.

 

True story - I was getting checked out in a Bonanza. Real fast bird, C33A with a 300 HP conversion. Trued out at 173 KTS and I typically flew it at 165. Gear extension speed similar to the Mooneys. As I usually do when getting checked out in a retract. I told my instructor my procedure to avoid surprises on both of our parts.

 

So, anyway, we are descending to the airport and got down to pattern altitude a bit early, maybe 5 miles out for a 45-degree entry. Suddenly, my instructor stated laughing. I looked at him to ask why and he pointed to my right hand. I wasn't even aware of it but my right hand had moved to the gear handle and was hovering over it, shaking in anticipation since I had reach pattern altitude but was not yet within 3 miles.

 

I leave it to the psychologists but I think that's the power of habit at work.

[MB65E]

I normally check the gear selector prior to hitting the master. Glad I have that habit, because our airplane left Munci Aviation, an MSC, after an expensive annual with out the airspeed switch installed. So somewhere between 1965 and 2012 the switch was removed. I discovered it when I did the first annual on the airplane.

Others have mentioned it, but leaving you hand on the gear handle till its verified I think is a good idea.

-Matt

[Danb]

Ross I partially agree there are checklists and do lists..now it's up to you to ascertain which is a must do on your list..gear down is one...

[Marauder]

I rarely land without hearing the gear horn at some point. I don't wait as long as described above to drop the gear- usually try to time it for 30-60 seconds before entering downwind. After descending at MP of 20, I level off around 300-500 ft above TPA, then pull the throttle back further and level off- horn will start blaring at MP of 18 usually - does this mean the horn switch is out of adjustment? I'm pretty far aft on the throttle at this point, so maybe not. Still it feels like an eternity for IAS to go from around 130-140mph to 120 so I can drop the gear. I then tug down neurotically on the johnson bar a few times on downwind, base, and final. I'm not worried that not down at this point (seems I could have never slowed adequately otherwise), but rather that the sleeve is locked up (a habit formed from difficulties getting sleeve to lock during my transition training).

My horn won't go off until it is below 12" MP (maybe 13").

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[Marauder]

I rarely land without hearing the gear horn at some point. I don't wait as long as described above to drop the gear- usually try to time it for 30-60 seconds before entering downwind. After descending at MP of 20, I level off around 300-500 ft above TPA, then pull the throttle back further and level off- horn will start blaring at MP of 18 usually - does this mean the horn switch is out of adjustment? I'm pretty far aft on the throttle at this point, so maybe not. Still it feels like an eternity for IAS to go from around 130-140mph to 120 so I can drop the gear. I then tug down neurotically on the johnson bar a few times on downwind, base, and final. I'm not worried that not down at this point (seems I could have never slowed adequately otherwise), but rather that the sleeve is locked up (a habit formed from difficulties getting sleeve to lock during my transition training).

As far as speed goes, if I am entering a pattern, I find 17" MP and 2400 RPM will get me to flap speed of 109 KIAS. Once flaps are set I will see it settle in at 100 KIAS, low enough for our lower gear speeds.

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[Guest]

Check lists are not "to do" lists in my opinion. They are for verifying that your workflow was completed without interruption.  Any before landing checklist in a Mooney should be dirt simple.    Mine could be edited down to GUS. 

 

Gas

Undercarriage

Seatbelts

Some flight school check lists are excessively long, it seems designed to add another tenth to the Hobbs meter. A client of mine who owned an Ovation used to fly F-86 Sabres in his earlier life told me they had to have the normal check list committed to memory. I'd bet it was straight forward and to the point.

Clarence

[Marauder]

Airlines have very few, as in zero, gear ups. It is because the gear down, landing checklist is a flow backed up by a check list. In the 201 the check list is printed on the panel. So throw the gear, make sure it lights green, put down the flaps, adjust power, trim. But that is all flow, procedure, and technique.

Mine is simple as well, gear down abeam the numbers, when the Aera alerts "five hundred" or turning final, verify the gear and flaps are down, and the mixture and prop are set for go-around. That is all.

the 737 landing checklist is speed brake armed, gear down three green, and flaps __

so was the 747-400.

I learned the flow technique a while back and really like it. I find it especially helpful on the pre-start checks. I back it up with a checklist that includes the items that are critical.

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[Hank]

Per the Owners Manual, I put gear down abeam the intended point of landing. On an instrument approach, I fly with Takeoff flaps, and lower the gear to start my descent (when crossing VOR inbound, or 1-1/2 dots above glideslope). Either way, my final descent starts by dropping the gear. I don't hold onto the switch, but I do pay attention and wait for the 'thunk' as they lock down.

I generally try to reach pattern altitude about 3 miles out, level off and reduce throttle to slow down. Since I descend power-on, it can take a few miles to slow from ~170 to 120 mph, and try to have Takeoff flaps down by pattern entry.

One time I purposely left the gear up to do a flyby, and had two problems: airspeed was too high, and it was hard to descend. Maybe it was all psychological since I knew the gear was up? My flyby ended up about 600 agl.

[Shadrach]

My horn won't go off until it is below 12" MP (maybe 13").

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I don't think my horn would go off at all with one of your passengers...

[PTK]

The pre landing checklist is so ridiculously short.

Barring equipment malfunction I really see no other reason to belly it in.

Distractions happen I understand that but its not a good enough reason. There's plenty of opportunity to put the gear down. It does require paying attention to the airplane.

There's simply no excuse to forget the gear.

[Shadrach]

My flyby ended up about 600 agl.

That's TPA this time of year for the J3s on our field.

[DXB]

It could mean you should consider whether you should be further ahead of the airplane in terms of planning power reductions to begin the process of slowing down further out.

 

But if you are getting the gear warning at 18" MP, it might mean it is out of adjustment. 14-15 inches is pretty standard. I've rarely had to go below 16-17" to get down to the speed I want for gear extension unless I was expediting a descent.

 

 

My horn won't go off until it is below 12" MP (maybe 13").

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Alright then, thanks.  Gear horn adjustment has been added to the list of stuff for the annual - 18" is just too high to hear it.  I think it's a factor in my not slowing down to Vlo very easily- I pretty much stop pulling back on the throttle if I hear the horn. Maybe I've become conditioned by the noise to feel it's a sign of weakness to trigger the horn outside its actual purpose, so I subconsciously try to keep MP above 18" before the gear comes down.    

[Hank]

My Owners Manual says the gear horn should come on at 12" in my C. Eighteen is way too high, I fly the pattern with less than that!