Metal in the Oil Filter

[ryoder]

He means 1/2" valves. Through the 60s, when most of our vintage Mooneys were built, Lycoming was building O-360s and IO-360s with smaller diameter valves than the 1/2" ones we have now. TBOs were as short as 1200 hours. When the 1/2" valves were introduced (I am not sure of the exact date) they could be retrofitted to older engines and their TBOs could be extended. This was a big shopping point in the early 80s when we bought our C but by now it is just a historical footnote, I suspect, as most if not all engines of that era have by now been upgraded.

Yeah what he said. I'm no a&p.

[DaV8or]

I blame this all on the Bethlehem Steel Corporation. Back then we made real steel. Today we buy inferior metal.

I worked in the steel mills while going to college. You see what we buy today, and for those of us who worked the metal, you know there is a difference (unless it is speciality steel).

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Agreed. Less refined, a little rubbery and inconsistent, but hey, everyday low prices!!

[AndyFromCB]

Agreed. Less refined, a little rubbery and inconsistent, but hey, everyday low prices!!

 

If that was really the case then explain why car engines now last essentially forever and with much greater horsepower than before from smaller displacements? Metallurgy has apparently improved everywhere but aircraft engines. Even steel car frames are made from special alloys like boron.

[DaV8or]

If that was really the case then explain why car engines now last essentially forever and with much greater horsepower than before from smaller displacements? Metallurgy has apparently improved everywhere but aircraft engines. Even steel car frames are made from special alloys like boron.

 

I can only speak to what the local fabricators making stuff from your own two hands perspective. The auto makers have much more at stake and much more money. I suspect they can better select the materials they use. Aircraft engine manufacturers, without billions in the bank like car makers have, probably fall somewhere between the auto makers and the local town fabricator in thier ability to procure quality material.

[carusoam]

Anyone have a new Ford pick-up with aluminum bed?

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

Anthony--

 

I went to look at them recently. The whole durn truck, including the extruded frame, is aluminum. I don't trust it . . . Owning one aluminum vehicle is enough without adding one on the ground, too.

[mike_elliott]

Anthony--

 

I went to look at them recently. The whole durn truck, including the extruded frame, is aluminum. I don't trust it . . . Owning one aluminum vehicle is enough without adding one on the ground, too.

 

Oh, and if it were a Florida truck, everyone will be advised not to run, not walk away from it

[chrisk]

If that was really the case then explain why car engines now last essentially forever and with much greater horsepower than before from smaller displacements? Metallurgy has apparently improved everywhere but aircraft engines. Even steel car frames are made from special alloys like boron.

 

I can imagine the folks who make cams/lifters have always used a particular alloy of steel.  It was probably common with good tolerances 40 years ago.  Now, the alloy comes from somewhere (probably China) and if its a cheaper variant, the quality control may not be there. --So, the manufacturer probably needs to move to a new alloy.  I'm guessing the manufacturers don't have the expertise to select a proper alloy, or the old alloy is part of the documented process and changing it would mean going through a boat load of FAA hoops.   

[Hank]

According to their website, the body is an aluminum alloy but the frame is still steel. I am very impressed with it, personally. http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/

The dealership had an impressive cutaway display touting the extruded aluminum frame. I thought it was unusual; the salesman pointed it out, so obviously he was wrong. Still don't want one. They had exactly ONE truck that wasn't a crew cab . . . I don't need a six-passenger truck or a half a bed, I use my truck to haul stuff.

[jetdriven]

Lighter weight.  they had to go up on metal gauge to get the proper dent resistance and now the aluminium truck is only 60 LBS, let me repeat that, 60 lbs lighter than a Chevy Silverado yet costs 6k to fix a dent in the bedside.   Advanced technology?  yes.  Worth it, F. no.

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/02/the-real-cost-of-repairing-an-aluminum-bodied-2015-ford-f-150/index.htm

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2015/01/27/whats-crazier-than-smashing-an-aluminum-ford-f-150-with-a-sledgehammer-the-repair-bill/

[Guest]

Back to airplane engines, I wonder how Superior and ECI camshafts and lifters hold up compared to Lycoming?

Clarence

[jetdriven]

AaronK25 had a Superior cam and reground lifters, it bit the dust early.  Mine had a new Lycoming cam and reground lifters, it made it 1300 hours as well. 

[DaV8or]

AaronK25 had a Superior cam and reground lifters, it bit the dust early.  Mine had a new Lycoming cam and reground lifters, it made it 1300 hours as well. 

 

Hmmmm... maybe it's the reground lifters?

[aaronk25]

First round was a new lycoming cam with re ground lifters. Made it 400hours. It was pretty apparent it was the cam that was to soft.

Now against my initial thoughts I went with the recommendation of 2 engine shops Buldoc and Jewell aviation which was Aircraft Specialties re-ground cam and lifters. Both shops saw significantly higher failure rates with new lycoming parts.

Lycoming lost whatever business I can steer away from them for the foreseeable future. At Oshkosh a few of there arrogant sales reps explained to me how they never have had cam/lifter problems and my case was isolated. Finally I got to talk to some scrubby looking tech guy behind the counter who when away from the rest of the reps explained in great detail what they did to correct the issues that cause a lot of failures.

[Gone]

Update:

 

It continues.  We were at the 10 year mark for the prop so it went in for overhaul and the blades failed.  I was buying an overhauled hub from the ones let go by the Katana factory anyway, so overhauled blades complete that piece of it.  No more Eddy Current Inspection.  

 

In purging all contaminated oil from the engine parts to prevent it acting like sandpaper on everything, we found out that it would cost some outrageous amount to overhaul the governor.  So, we are buying a new PCU drop in replacement for a fraction to overhaul the old one.

 

Engine will be back from the shop this week, and propeller within a few days.  I will have C-FSWR back in my hands by the middle of next week (hopefully).  Looks like I will be running low and hot for the first 10 hours or so in order to burn the rings in.

 

Then it is into the air for Yves and I to practice a couple more times, hopefully with Houman as well, including element take-offs and landings at Gatineau airport. Bucko called me yesterday and he is our Kilo Element Lead for the Caravan.  Looking for a replay of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NhiKj4sCWs.

[mike_elliott]

First round was a new lycoming cam with re ground lifters. Made it 400hours. It was pretty apparent it was the cam that was to soft.

Now against my initial thoughts I went with the recommendation of 2 engine shops Buldoc and Jewell aviation which was Aircraft Specialties re-ground cam and lifters. Both shops saw significantly higher failure rates with new lycoming parts.

Lycoming lost whatever business I can steer away from them for the foreseeable future. At Oshkosh a few of there arrogant sales reps explained to me how they never have had cam/lifter problems and my case was isolated. Finally I got to talk to some scrubby looking tech guy behind the counter who when away from the rest of the reps explained in great detail what they did to correct the issues that cause a lot of failures.

scrubby looking tech guys are the "go to" guys for issue info, for sure. Back slappin', wide grinning polished sales guys have their place, but not when it comes to facts about their product's shortcomings usually. Did you do the centrilube stc on the cam while you were at it, Aaron?

[Guest]

Update:

 

It continues.  We were at the 10 year mark for the prop so it went in for overhaul and the blades failed.  I was buying an overhauled hub from the ones let go by the Katana factory anyway, so overhauled blades complete that piece of it.  No more Eddy Current Inspection.  

 

In purging all contaminated oil from the engine parts to prevent it acting like sandpaper on everything, we found out that it would cost some outrageous amount to overhaul the governor.  So, we are buying a new PCU drop in replacement for a fraction to overhaul the old one.

 

Engine will be back from the shop this week, and propeller within a few days.  I will have C-FSWR back in my hands by the middle of next week (hopefully).  Looks like I will be running low and hot for the first 10 hours or so in order to burn the rings in.

 

Then it is into the air for Yves and I to practice a couple more times, hopefully with Houman as well, including element take-offs and landings at Gatineau airport. Bucko called me yesterday and he is our Kilo Element Lead for the Caravan.  Looking for a replay of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NhiKj4sCWs.

The good news just keeps coming! I picked up the engine today, going back after dinner to repaint the engine mount, hoping it will be dry in the morning.

Clarence

[Houman]

Update:

 

It continues.  We were at the 10 year mark for the prop so it went in for overhaul and the blades failed.  I was buying an overhauled hub from the ones let go by the Katana factory anyway, so overhauled blades complete that piece of it.  No more Eddy Current Inspection.  

 

In purging all contaminated oil from the engine parts to prevent it acting like sandpaper on everything, we found out that it would cost some outrageous amount to overhaul the governor.  So, we are buying a new PCU drop in replacement for a fraction to overhaul the old one.

 

Engine will be back from the shop this week, and propeller within a few days.  I will have C-FSWR back in my hands by the middle of next week (hopefully).  Looks like I will be running low and hot for the first 10 hours or so in order to burn the rings in.

 

Then it is into the air for Yves and I to practice a couple more times, hopefully with Houman as well, including element take-offs and landings at Gatineau airport. Bucko called me yesterday and he is our Kilo Element Lead for the Caravan.  Looking for a replay of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NhiKj4sCWs.

Great to hear Ned, I talked to Yves on the weekend, hopefully he will be able to get in touch with the father/son cfi that teaches acrobatics and formation flying. I feel better to have a saftey pilot with experience with me since I got less than 4h formation flying done at the Caravan training.

[Guest]

Here it is:

[Andy95W]

Smart. You got the inverted oil system.

[Marauder]

Here it is:

You acrobatic pilots never quit, do you?!

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[Guest]

Smart. You got the inverted oil system.

I'm hoping the cam will last longer!

Clarence

[Gone]

Thanks Clarence:

 

Looks good.  Looks like Ron did a good job.

[Gone]

C-FSWR Lives!!!!!!

 

Clarence tells me we are almost done.  After this run up he was letting it cool down before the next run and de bugging of EGT issues.  Hoping the new oil cooler arrives tomorrow.  He has to remove the test prop and install my new one. Then the new governor and the cowl.

 

Ron (the engine builder from http://www.reliablehorsepower.com/) advises he would like first oil change after 2 hours of break in flying to get the molybdenum disulphide (that came with the new cam) out of the engine .  

 

However, no formation flying until break in is complete, nor circuits/bump-and-go's. Finish the straight and level for break in first.  If all goes well tomorrow, Yves and I will probably head to Waterloo on the weekend to pick it up.  Two hours local for the oil change, then two hours low and hot back to Ottawa. Hope to fly six more break in hours before the end of Tuesday. That gives me 10 days to get a couple more practice hours with Yves before flying to Madison.

 

I would say:  Wish me luck, but none of this is about luck (defined as the happy confluence of preparedness and opportunity).  Hard work, technical competence, planning, and some carpe diem.  I fully intend to celebrate behind some scotch in the Mooney Caravan tent on Sunday evening of our arrival.

 

Thank you Clarence.  Thank you Yves.  Thank you Ron.

C-FSWR post install runup.mov

[Marauder]

Cool beans! Sounds like a great effort to get you flying again. Seemed like only yesterday we were discussing your findings.

Heck, if Clarence wasn't in Canada and I could say, aaabout and proooocess correctly, I'd be up there having him working on my Mooney.

Nice job Clarence!

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