Ned Gravel Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Well it happened. C-FSWR is in for annual, seven years after the overhaul, and metal in the oil filter is indication of a serious problem. Picture attached. And it is also apparently time (because of the mandated overhaul of my prop whose blades no longer conform) to get the B hub with replacement blades. The oil filter inspection was done at the beginning of my annual last week. This was three hours after the oil change I had done immediately after our return from Las Vegas. That inspection was done by the local flying club and did not show anything in the filter. Here is the result: engine inspected and spalling lifters and camshaft metal particle contamination throughout (including piston skirts) new camshaft and lifter kit ordered purging of said particles from governor, bearings, oil cooler, and anywhere else they may have gotten into. three or four-fold increase in cost of annual that already had some extras on the list overhauled B Hub (and blades) from the Katana factory that replaced their new production models with MT props. one week annual now a two month engine removal, repair and remount. No more eddy-current inspections?? Crankcase is now split and sitting in the engine shop on the field. We hope to get it mounted back onto C-FSWR by the beginning of July, or I will have trouble making it to the Caravan this year. We always have the possibility of facing such a circumstance, just like there is always the possibility of losing an engine at altitude. The former is easier to face and it helps prevent the latter as doing this now is obviously better than losing bits in flight. I am not ready to give up flying yet. I am keeping the aircraft and replacement of needed parts is cheaper than a new engine. Nimis Brevis Vita Est Volare Tarde 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Sorry to hear about this. How many hours on the engine since the last overhaul? Using any additives? A similar thing happened to a friend. Was on a trip out west and noticed some anemic performance. Got back changed the oil and found metal. You are a lot further ahead than he is. His is still in the crate awaiting shipment. That was 2 years ago. He is on the fence about whether to rebuild it. Why would he? He flies with me when he needs a fix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Gravel Posted June 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Marauder: About 600 or so hours. Clarence has the log book. I think we were using an additive, but I am not sure. No 1 reason for this? Not flying it enough (and perhaps not drying the engine in the summer). Winters are cold and dry here. As for sharing, I used to be in a partnership. The one thing it taught me is that I am not doing it again. Maintenance decisions are mine alone now. I like that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 That's a bummer Ned. Nobody wants to hear such news. What oil were you running? Were you using camguard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 It is for days like this that they invented beer. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabremech Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Now this would give me annual anxiety! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 It is for days like this that they invented beer. ...and popcorn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 It is for days like this that they invented beer. And Tennessee sippin' whiskey! Best wishes, Ned. Hope everything goes smoothly for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Peace Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Well it happened. C-FSWR is in for annual, seven years after the overhaul, and metal in the oil filter is indication of a serious problem. Picture attached. And it is also apparently time (because of the mandated overhaul of my prop whose blades no longer conform) to get the B hub with replacement blades. What oil were you running? Were you using camguard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Adding to the collective UGH! Good luck and best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drapo Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Ned, thanks for keeping that 65E flying! I feel your pain, changed a jug this annual and the $5k additional bill was a bit hard to swallow. But, I also prefer to fly and be the sole owner than to stay on the ground watching planes go by! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Camguard at every oil change which I have done for Ned. Oil was either W100 in summer or Phillips 20W50 in winter. The oil had only about 4 hours since the last change, my 3/8" diameter magnet had a good covering of very fine ferrous metal in that time. Piston skirts were imbedded metal flakes from the two lifter bodies Ned posted as well as the shared intake lobe for cylinders 1&2. The camshaft showed signs of corrosion pitting on all lobe surfaces. Not the most pleasant news to give to a client and friend. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisk Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 That sucks. -I just wish I had something positive to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaV8or Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 So sorry to hear this Ned. I have come to accept that this is the eventual fate for most of us with Lycomings that didn't have control of the engine since rebuild/new, and don't fly that often. That means me. I have the money in the bank set aside for this day. I know my number will come up too. Every oil change is a nail biter it seems. If only Lycoming and Continental could get into bed and have a baby with both good top ends and solid camshaft lubrication. Question for Clarence- How do you "purge" the oil cooler and the prop governor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-GHIJ Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Sorry to hear that Ned. That really sucks. If anyone can get you back in the air, Clarence can. Hope your back in the air soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will W Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Were you doing lean of peak operations ever? This looks like what you might find if you had uneven fuel injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCowboy Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Flanders, I really hope to see you breaking in that rebuilt engine on the Caravan this July. Bring some of the parts down and we can construct a memorial and appropriate ceremony during the Scotch tasting session. This may require a new call sign. Cowboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Gravel Posted June 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Sorry to hear that Ned. That really sucks. If anyone can get you back in the air, Clarence can. Hope your back in the air soon. + 1. My feeling too. It is why he is my maintainer. Ned Gravel Lucky steward of C-FSWR, a '65 E model at Rockcliffe, Ontario, (CYRO) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Gravel Posted June 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Flanders, I really hope to see you breaking in that rebuilt engine on the Caravan this July. Bring some of the parts down and we can construct a memorial and appropriate ceremony during the Scotch tasting session. This may require a new call sign. Cowboy Oakley dokley Cowboy. Ned Gravel Lucky steward of C-FSWR, a '65 E model at Rockcliffe, Ontario, (CYRO) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Gravel Posted June 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Were you doing lean of peak operations ever? This looks like what you might find if you had uneven fuel injectors. Yes. Not always, but above 8000' mostly. But I am not certain how LOP could affect corrosion in the crankcase. Am I missing something? Or is this the prelude to another Timmy thread? Ned Gravel Lucky steward of C-FSWR, a '65 E model at Rockcliffe, Ontario, (CYRO) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronk25 Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 The other thing that can kill lycoming cams is excessive blow by past the rings, essentially bathing the cam and lifters in hot dry exhaust gasses. Did you have higher oil consumption or wet plugs on the cylinders infront of the failed cam/lifters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yvesg Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I am really sad for Ned and Ute. Got the news today and feel lucky this did not happen to me yet. I religiously fly my aircraft at least once a week, maybe two but this is rare. Due to his work, Ned needs to leave his aircraft parked for several weeks which might have caused this. Lets hope there will not be more issues down the road. Yves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravoman Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 And Tennessee sippin' whiskey! Best wishes, Ned. Hope everything goes smoothly for you. And don't forget Kentucky windage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 'I feel your pain" OOPPS sorry that was said by someone else years ago :-) Sorry to hear of the problems. I too had an annual issue two weeks ago. Lost a cylinder due to exhaust vakve leak (too far gone for the "lap in place" fix and valve guide wobble caused it). On my O-360 it took no more than 6 hrs off and on (I'm slow as I do the work) and @ $850 repair labor and shipping from engine shop . I like my C, cheap flying, cheap to reapair, great MPG. BTW, I used Pacific Continental Engines in Pacoima, CA and had fantastic service again from them. 2 day turn around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Unfortunately, Ned, nobody knows the secret to long engine life. Aaronk is on his third engine and the last one he flew the hell out of, Camguard, the whole bit yet it still ate the cam and lifters in 500hr. Mine made it 1250 hours. Maybe the factory overhaul roller cam solves it but it's the most expensive option and ours has 100 PPM/50 hour iron in the oil analysis after 400 hrs which was higher than the engine that ate the cam. Perhaps you should shell out 29k for an factory engine and send it to Zephyr to get overhauled again before installing it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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