Overhauled Engine Break-In

[CoachTom]

Picking up aircraft in a few weeks after overhaul and other than the few pages given to me by the repair facility, are there any items needed to break in engine?

Any specific mineral oil? any power setting scheme (65% for 30 mins then 75% 30 mins...)? any duration to oil changes? Optimal length of flights?

Just concerned about this break in after reading the literature and seeing there is possibility of "glazing" of cylinders and other missteps that can occur.

As always, appreciate any and all postings!

V/R

 

[Bob]

Tom,

I think the best info would come from a phone call to Continental and maybe the cylinder manufacturer if not the factory.  Have you talked to them?  I am sure there are a lot of people interested in your complete overhaul experience.  Please share it all with us: shops involved, givens, unknowns, times  & engine history,cost, choices you had to make, time frame, upgrades etc.  Thanks!

[KSMooniac]

I had all of my cylinders IRAN'd last year and followed the procedures developed and honed by the GAMI/Tornado Alley Turbo folks with great results.

The idea is to keep the power level high and the CHTs cool by flying hi-power LOP settings.  First flight should be 30-45 minutes followed by a landing and inspection to check for leaks, tighten any hoses, etc.  Second flight should be 3-4 hours at hi-power LOP, cowl flaps open, and by then everything should be broken-in with stabilized CHT and oil consumption.  They also recommend using regular oil that you intend to run, but not something with the additives like A/S 15W-50 nor mineral oil.  I used Aeroshell W80 since I did that work in March last year.  Since I'm non-turbo, I flew low (like 3500') at ~80% power LOP since that was all I could generate.  With your K, you could of course fly higher and keep the power up.  I added about half a quart after my first flight, and the rest after the 4 hour flight, and that was it.  My consumption now 150+ hours later is about 1 qt in 15 hours or so.

You can search up articles from Mike Busch or John Deakin on Avweb, or posts from Walter Atkinson on the AOPA Forum for more discussion.  I trust their experience and recommendations much, much more than anything published by TCM and especially Lycoming.

[N601RX]

A lot depends on the cylinders.  Are they new Lycomming, rebored, or chromed?  Also there are 2 different kinds of Chrome.  Each has it's own break in procedure.  If not done correctly you can wind up with a new engine that uses oil.  

[KSMooniac]

In my case my Lycoming steel cylinders were re-honed.  I got new guides, pistons/rings, and 1 new exhaust valve.

[N57039]

I followed the same procedure Scott described with new Lycoming steel cylinders. Worked great. My oil then and now is Phillips XC 15W-50 (the blue bottle stuff).

[tony]

I'm in the middle of my own field overhaul, have you guys considered putting in an engine analyzer?  My mechanic says it won’t buy me anything and my money would be better spent elsewhere; however, it might be nice to trend the engine with all new or reworked parts.  Any thoughts?

He also said not to use mineral oil when we’re done, just to use the regular oil in the engine in I plan to use all the time during the break in without any additives at first.

 

[Ned Gravel]

Quote: tony

I'm in the middle of my own field overhaul, have you guys considered putting in an engine analyzer?  My mechanic says it won’t buy me anything and my money would be better spent elsewhere; however, it might be nice to trend the engine with all new or reworked parts.  Any thoughts?

He also said not to use mineral oil when we’re done, just to use the regular oil in the engine in I plan to use all the time during the break in without any additives at first.

 

[scottfromiowa]

I could Not MORE STRONGLY DISAGREE with your mechanic regarding an engine analyzer being not critical.  I believe this is one of the most important gauges in your panel...

I used straight mineral oil and high power until oil consumption stabilized...then I switched to my multi weight oil with CamGuard.  400+ hours into first overhaul of IO360A1A and oil consumption is minimal and temps are looking good.

[skyking]

I also used straight mineral oil for the first 100 hours.

[KSMooniac]

An engine analyzer is a must-have and a very high bang-for-the-buck purchase compared to how expensive everything else seems to be with planes.  With a little education, it will help you manage the operation of your engine properly, drastically increase the chances of getting to TBO or beyond, and quickly diagnose any troubles that can save you shop time, keep you from getting stranded, or even save your life.

Get a modern monitor and learn how to use it!

[carusoam]

Tony,

I agree with the KSmooniac, engine analyzer is good and I would consider adding fuel flow / total to that too....

Sure these are not items you drastically need, book values are mostly correct, And running out of fuel only happens to the other guys....

In this thread, there is an example of a cylinder failure that was identifiable during the take-off phase.

http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=3&threadid=873

The data indicates that a cylinder is going bad. An alarm condition was given.  Without the analyzer all the pilot knows is something bad is happening.  He was also able to hand this data to his mechanic to help identify the culprit, and of course share the data with the mooneyspace community...

These are items that you want, and are not available by any other instruments in the plane.  Long term, they will save you more than their cost.

What is a better way to spend your money...?  GPS if you don't have one already....

-a-

[fantom]

Quote: tony

I'm in the middle of my own field overhaul.....and mechanic says it won’t buy me anything

[Ned Gravel]

Tony:

From the responses you have received, you can determine that those responding do not agree with your mechanic. Differences of opinion are OK, but I am not certain any of us who responded are licensed mechanics.  I am not.

You are getting advice from an A&P and you may wish to hear the opinions of some very well-respected A&Ps (AME's in Canada) whom you can ask and are gurus when it comes to Mooneys.

Tom Rouch at Top Gun, Don Maxwell at Maxwell Aviation, Paul Loewen at LASAR, Ronnie Kramer at Dugosh, Russell Stallings at Southwest Texas Aviation, Clarence Beintema at Tri-City Aero just to name a few.

Call any of them and ask the same question.  I would be interested in your mechanic's reaction when you give him the responses you get back.

[tony]

Ned, thank you for that response, that’s an excellent idea!  I think I will.  Personally, I thought the engine analyzer was a good idea and was surprised at my mechanic’s response to my question.  So I was looking for some other people’s opinions and experiences so I could make up my own mind.   The engineer in me wants to put it in because I get some cool data and I can trend it from a baseline; you can never have too much data.  Perhaps even make a determination on preventative maintenance (doubtful).  Then there is the appliance operator in me is trying to understand the value of that data in real time and understand how I would operate the machine differently.  I feel most comfortable 100 degrees rich of peak

[DaV8or]

Tony,

The engine analyzer buys you information and that's about it. It by itself won't do anything to prolong engine life. However, it's what you do with the information that can potentially prolong life. If nothing else, it gives you way more accurate read out on temperatures and helps you lean. Pay a little extra and you can get fuel flow and totals as well as a reliable tachometer. All in one 2 1/4" gizmo. It will tell you of a bad trend in your engine long before the factory guages will. Which do you think you will notice first, a flashing orange LED display with text on it or a tiny needle creeping towards the red? Wire the analyzer to a voice alert box (like I'm looking into doing) and you can get warnings in your headset too!

 

[tony]

I'm sorry to monopolize Tom's original question.  I found this:

http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/service-instructions/pdfs/SI1427B.pdf

 

[CoachTom]

To all,

No worries on the “hijack”, it is all good.  Just like a whole bunch of pilots sitting around the picnic table at the FBO on a Saturday morning, talking about our aircraft, stopping only when a plane comes in to land, and then talk about that landing…

So back to my engine break in…. TCM steel cylinders, the repair facility is going to do the first few hours on the break in because I need to ferry the plane home, can anyone tell me which mineral oil for a warm climate? 

Does the repair facility need to do the fuel control adjustment again or is the setup from the rebuild shop good enough (Western Skyway)?

Last question: Is it better to run the aircraft at 85% LOP or 65 to 75% ROP?

Thanks! Just real worried about ruining a great rebuild…

as always, THANKS!

[KSMooniac]

85% LOP would be better than any of the ROP settings IMO.  Higher power and cooler CHT (ie hi-power LOP) is optimal.  I would skip the mineral oil too and use whatever oil you plan to run.

What exactly is the repair facility going to do?  Run it on a stand, on the plane, in the air?  I would rather break it in flying so that you know it is getting cooled properly and keep the initial ground runs to a minimum to just assure proper function, fuel flows, and no leaks.  As I mentioned, a short local shake-down flight followed by a multi-hour XC flight is optimal.

[scottfromiowa]

I read the same bulletin provided in this link...I did the straight mineral oil as Lyc bulletin says "must be used" for 50 hours or until oil consumption stabilizes...not should, may, can...MUST.  If Lyc says this why would you use "the oil you are going to run"?  The purpose of the break in is to seat and break in the cylinders/pistons/rings etc...so why would you put an oil with wear additives when you WANT the engine to "wear/break in" properly?  They also say things regarding power, but don't discuss LOP vs. ROP...I just tried to do a minimum of one to two hour flights and watched cylinder temps and oil consumption closely.

Where are you folks getting this information from?

[KSMooniac]

I followed recommendations and procedures from Advanced Pilot Seminars/GAMI/Tornado Alley Turbos.  Their research and data has been far more sophisticated than the engine companies over the last decade, and they have lots of evidence to back up their procedures.  The procedure I outlined above worked very well for me, and it has for many others.  But, I'm just a guy on the internet so nobody has to do what I did.    I've gotten educated over the last few years, and it makes a lot of the Lycoming-published stuff make them look ignorant at best, or devious at worst.  TCM less so, but there are still some head-scratchers.

[scottfromiowa]

I'm not trying to be "attacking", but am trying to better understand "Break-in".  You want to seat/break-in the cylinders etc...That was why I understood that you used mineral oil without wear prevention for initial period because you wanted the engine to "wear-in"...

I would enjoy reading some of the data/articles on why "oil you plan to use" is better as I want to learn.  I am also "just a guy on the internet".  My reading has made me "buy in" on CamGuard and would be interested to know more about break-in do's and don'ts.

I agree in principle with the suggestions in the Lyc. bulletin regarding power etc. but there is NO discussion regarding mixture...only power as computed by altitude and suggestion to be no higher (normally aspirated) than 5,000 to get needed manifold pressure.  It certainly makes logical sense to monitor the cylinder temps and keep them solidly "in the green" during break-in.  Varying power also seems like a good idea as you want a spectrum of different break-in power so as to NOT get a single grooved power...

But we don't run mineral oil in cars so....?!

I find this VERY INTERESTING and wish there was more quality step by step information out there...that is current.  I just don't see (not a conspiracy theorist) why engine companies would want anything but the RIGHT way to break-in an engine in their documents/guidelines...

[KSMooniac]

Here is a link to a discussion I found with the verbatim APS procedure (towards the bottom):

http://lists.kjsl.com/pipermail/beech-owners/2008-March/073787.html

They do recommend to use normal oil for break-in, but I can't find a published version of it.  One caveat...they say not to use the semi-synthetics like A/S 15W-50...just use conventional oil like W80, W100, etc.

 

[KSMooniac]

Another reasonable article, but short on specifics:  http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/184932-1.html

It does mention the use of regular oil for turbo Lycoming engine break-in...so the question becomes why only for turbo engines?    I'd argue that our high-compression IO-360s are in the same camp.

[tony]

Oh boy, I know this isn’t going to go over well……During the combustion process, engines will produce ash.  Straight mineral oil without any additives will not hold the hydrocarbons generated by the combustion process in solution.  Those hydrocarbons will participate out of solution and be deposited in the bottom of the engine as sludge.  Ashless dispersant oils and will tend to hold these hydrocarbons in solution and will be flushed out with your oil change.  It’s a person choice I guess.  Now my question is: what is the technical reason you would you use mineral oil?