Superior Aviation Town (in China)

[carqwik]

Worth noting if this is true...now I see where Mooney is headed...

 

http://flightclub.jalopnik.com/china-will-build-a-superior-aviation-town-near-beijing-1635120368/+travis

 

[KSMooniac]

I like the idea... we'll see how it pans out.  I don't doubt their ability to build such a thing, but opening up the freedom of the skies and actually producing airworthy components is quite another proposition.

[John Pleisse]

Yes...they will likely cheap out with the runway cement, they will install polybutylene piping in the FBO, defective sheet rock in all of the homes, offer flight instruction with pirated Jepp books and install defective light bulbs with poisonous gas for all city and runway lighting. Of course, all of this will be mass produced by sweatshop children.

 

Separately......somebody tell me how Chinese vision has become so grandiose? They are really over the top.

[flyboy0681]

It's amazing what a country could accomplish when they can claim eminent domain on a whim. "See those houses there where the runway is to be located, I want them torn down by Friday and expect excavation equipment here to start the job on Monday".

[flyboy0681]

Yes...they will likely cheap out with the runway cement, they will install polybutylene piping in the FBO, defective sheet rock in all of the homes, offer flight instruction with pirated Jepp books and install defective light bulbs with poisonous gas for all city and runway lighting. Of course, all of this will be mass produced by sweatshop children.

 

Separately......somebody tell me how Chinese vision has become so grandiose? They are really over the top.

 

This is not your grandfathers commie-land.

[Guest]

With enough of America's money anything is possible.

Clarence

[bonal]

Look at it this way if they buy lots of Mooney's Cessna Beeches and pipers some of that money will be coming back home and landing (pun intended) right where most of us would really want American aviation jobs. Aircraft manufacturing is one of the few remaining areas where our exports exceed our imports. Even Honda was smart enough to know the best place to develope and build there first ever jet is right here. We may not make the best cars but by god we make the best airplanes.

[John Pleisse]

This is not your grandfathers commie-land.

 

Nearly everything I just mocked, has occurred in the last decade. They have brand new interstates that need to be repaved, bridges mis-engineered, new skyscrapers that are condemned ......and on.......and on........ I don't give them much credit. They are successful by polluting, pillaging and pirating. They better not screw up our beloved Mooney. 

[flyboy0681]

They are successful by polluting, pillaging and pirating.

 

You forgot the 4th "P", poisoning.

[Tony__L]

Look at it this way if they buy lots of Mooney's Cessna Beeches and pipers some of that money will be coming back home and landing (pun intended) right where most of us would really want American aviation jobs. Aircraft manufacturing is one of the few remaining areas where our exports exceed our imports. Even Honda was smart enough to know the best place to develope and build there first ever jet is right here. We may not make the best cars but by god we make the best airplanes.

Do your homework. Cessna are building planes in China now as are several other brands. So less and less of that money will go back to the States.

[bonal]

Relax Tony I'm aware that the U.S. has lost some of the Aircraft Manufacturing to other countries perhaps even South Africa.  And that China has invested in the purchase of some of our aircraft industry something that many of us here in the states are not at all happy about. I realise we live in a global economy now due in part to a bunch of people that want to save the planet making manufacturing here in the states almost impossible.  For example something near to my heart. We had an earthquake hit the SF bay area years back and one of the bridges was damaged so Caltrans decided to replace the entire east span of the bridge. Most of the steel used in the new bridge had to be made in China (god knows what the behind the seen was on that) it took over 20 years to complete at a cost of over 15 billion dollars (the original bridge took only 4 years for both east and west spans) and was constructed at the same time as the Golden Gate bridge. Now the new span of the Bay Bridge is already having problems that are costing millions to correct. So if China and others are expanding their GA and if any of that causes an increase in U.S. exports I am happy about it.

[flyboy0681]

Relax Tony I'm aware that the U.S. has lost some of the Aircraft Manufacturing to other countries perhaps even South Africa.  And that China has invested in the purchase of some of our aircraft industry something that many of us here in the states are not at all happy about. I realise we live in a global economy now due in part to a bunch of people that want to save the planet making manufacturing here in the states almost impossible.  For example something near to my heart. We had an earthquake hit the SF bay area years back and one of the bridges was damaged so Caltrans decided to replace the entire east span of the bridge. Most of the steel used in the new bridge had to be made in China (god knows what the behind the seen was on that) it took over 20 years to complete at a cost of over 15 billion dollars (the original bridge took only 4 years for both east and west spans) and was constructed at the same time as the Golden Gate bridge. Now the new span of the Bay Bridge is already having problems that are costing millions to correct. So if China and others are expanding their GA and if any of that causes an increase in U.S. exports I am happy about it.

 

You forgot to mention the project was given to a  Chinese contractor and that their bid was the lowest. But in the end the cost was 300% more than the state signed on for (surprise surprise). Add to the mix that the contractor up to the point of taking on the project only had experience building sea ports and that this was their first foray into bridge building (they are pretty much the same thing, aren't they?). Then there was the issue of the cracked welds.

 

I lived in the area during the 1989 quake and was directly affected by the collapse of the cantilever collapse and I drove the Cypress structure everyday around the same time of the shaker but was delayed that day. But the incident did prove one thing, it's amazing just how fast repairs can be made when it needs to be.

 

One last thing, let's not forget about the aircraft building that's going on in Brazil.

[KSMooniac]

Cheating is rampant over there... specs and standards for things like welds, steel or aluminum composition, drywall ingredients, dog food ingredients, etc. exist for a reason... and they bend over backwards to skimp on ingredients to save cost while cheating on the quality inspections.  Of course it ends up costing us far more later... but we partially have ourselves to blame in the race to the bottom on low-cost goods.  I don't know what the solution is except to not buy their crap when you have a choice, even if you have to pay more.

 

It will be interesting to see how a full airplane produced in China fares in the market place.  Currently they build sub-assemblies and such subject to oversight by US OEM's, so the quality is there.  Without Boeing riding herd, who knows what they would do.

[John Pleisse]

This is a great subject and more relevant than ever.

[flyboy0681]

  I don't know what the solution is except to not buy their crap when you have a choice, even if you have to pay more.

 

 

 

This is a problem that will plague us for years to come. American's seemed to be two faced on the subject, on one hand they btch and moan about the rise of China, yet they won't pay one penny more for goods than they have to. I was recently in London and it was quite apparent that the English are feeling the same way as us, as is all of Europe.

 

As far as buying American goes, it's not as easy as you think. A couple of years ago ABC had a series about buying and furnishing a house which contained only American manufactured items. In the end they were able to accomplish the task but it was not easy and added between 5 and 10% to the cost.

[KSMooniac]

This is a problem that will plague us for years to come. American's seemed to be two faced on the subject, on one hand they btch and moan about the rise of China, yet they won't pay one penny more for goods than they have to. I was recently in London and it was quite apparent that the English are feeling the same way as us, as is all of Europe.

 

As far as buying American goes, it's not as easy as you think. A couple of years ago ABC had a series about buying and furnishing a house which contained only American manufactured items. In the end they were able to accomplish the task but it was not easy and added between 5 and 10% to the cost.

 

I agree completely.  It is very difficult nowadays, and I'm quite shocked to even find everyday consumables coming from over there...some foods, light bulbs (huge pet peeve...they're total CRAP with very poor lifespans), drywall, common replacement auto parts, etc.  I can't believe we can't produce relatively simple things over here with huge volumes and easier transportation logistics, but I guess not.  I try to choose Mexico over China when I can, but even that is difficult.

[Guest]

It won't be all bad, you'll be able to buy your Chinese made airplane parts at Walmart, with a price...Err... quality roll back almost weekly.

Clarence

[DaV8or]

... but we partially have ourselves to blame in the race to the bottom on low-cost goods.  I don't know what the solution is except to not buy their crap when you have a choice, even if you have to pay more.

 

You got that right!! I don't how many times I have heard "For that much I buy xx of these!" and "If it breaks, I'll throw it away an just get another." We fuck ourselves all the time. I call my friends and family members on this all the time. They piss and moan about the pour state of our country and how the Chinese are taking over, but at the same time can't stop singing the praises of Harbor Freight and all the great deals over there.

 

I personally gave up trying to buy American made only, that's impossible now. I gave up years ago. I used to go on and on about buying Japanese, there was no such thing as buying made in China back then! I now do my best purchase in this order-

 

1. Made in America
2. Made by an American company
3. Not made in China

Some of the time, 1-3 is not possible and I buy the Chinese product anyhow. Just how it is now.

[aviatoreb]

It won't be all bad, you'll be able to buy your Chinese made airplane parts at Walmart, with a price...Err... quality roll back almost weekly.

Clarence

 

Attention K-Mart shoppers!  The red-tagged landing gear parts in aisle6 are reduced

[Piloto]

I don't think private GA flying in China will be as popular as here in the US. After all how many Chinese descendant have you seen as aircraft owners here in the US. It is much easier to own and use a private plane here in the US than anywhere else.

 

José

[Aerodon]

I helped design and build an $80 million hydro electric project.  The quotes for the penstock (steel pipe) were 1/3rd of the nearest USA producer.  The manufactured pipe was probably less than the price of steel (figure that one out).

 

But I had heard enough of first hand stories of:  1) night shift taking short cuts when your inspector is not looking.  2) out of round pipe.  3) ends not matching, 4) porous steel, 5) coating failures, 6) late delivery if a more important customer comes along.

 

So we ended up spending 3 times as much, but I sure slept well at night knowing that we were putting the best pipe in the ground and had a reasonable prospect of it lasting 50 years.

 

I know of one hydroelectric project that has used 1/2 of their corrosion allowance in 11 years, and they have a 40 year power contract…..

 

 

Don

[DaV8or]

I helped design and build an $80 million hydro electric project.  The quotes for the penstock (steel pipe) were 1/3rd of the nearest USA producer.  The manufactured pipe was probably less than the price of steel (figure that one out).

 

But I had heard enough of first hand stories of:  1) night shift taking short cuts when your inspector is not looking.  2) out of round pipe.  3) ends not matching, 4) porous steel, 5) coating failures, 6) late delivery if a more important customer comes along.

 

So we ended up spending 3 times as much, but I sure slept well at night knowing that we were putting the best pipe in the ground and had a reasonable prospect of it lasting 50 years.

 

I know of one hydroelectric project that has used 1/2 of their corrosion allowance in 11 years, and they have a 40 year power contract…..

 

 

Don

 

And 10 years later when the plant fails due pipe failure, who do go to for compensation? Who can you sue? The new Bay Bridge here in the San Francisco Bay is built entirely of Chinese steel and Chinese sub assemblies. The whole point of the replacement was for seismic safety reasons. All I know is I trust this new bridge a lot less than the old one.

[aviatoreb]

And 10 years later when the plant fails due pipe failure, who do go to for compensation? Who can you sue? The new Bay Bridge here in the San Francisco Bay is built entirely of Chinese steel and Chinese sub assemblies. The whole point of the replacement was for seismic safety reasons. All I know is I trust this new bridge a lot less than the old one.

 

And the old one broke.

[carusoam]

W. Edwards Deming, working in Japan after WWII defined the basis of quality control...

1) How to define what is being bought.

2) How to receive and test what is coming in.

3) What to do with materials that don't make the grade.

4) quality has costs that are associated with these steps.

5) quality without these steps costs more.

Non-Deming points:

6) who to put in jail for cheating.

7) who gets penalized for allowing bad things to happen on third shift.

8) who gets penalized for not writing a valuable specification.

Blaming the supplier is only half the problem. Blaming the buyer is often overlooked by the news media...

Was there a specification written? Did the supplier meet the spec?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

As a consumer, we try to do the same thing by simply buying the brand we are familiar with and appreciate. The people behind the brand do all the work defined by Deming...

Cheap steel from China, at 1/3 the cost, and still meets the specification? Really?

I would suppose there is more to the story that we are not getting from the media...

Best regards,

-a-