Canadian question - FBO comments?

[Becca]

Is there a web site like airnav.com for Canadian airports? I'd like to leave a review of an FBO somewhere to alert other pilots of my experience...

[MooneyBob]

Leave the review here as well. The word will spread. Specially if it's a bad one.

[Becca]

It was Central Airways at Kingston, ON (CYGK).  The entire experience was just weird.  Its a fairly large airport in a reasonable sized city.  Central Airways is the only FBO on the field and we've parked there before (though it was a few years ago).

 

Anyway, we pulled up in front, and the two line guys (only people attending the airport) were fueling a Cessna.  We sat their with the engine running waiting for some indication of where to park.  Nothing.  Then we tried the UNICOM.  Nothing.  Finally Byron hopped out of the airplane and asked what to do and got a "shrug, we were all full".

 

At that point we hopped out of the plane and went to talk to the guy.   He said "all" (about 5) of his tie downs

were full.  He directed us all the way across the apron (which was no small distance - think hundreds of yards) into the taxiway (where commercial airliners taxi past) and suggested we just leave the plane there and that other planes do it when they are full.  There were no tie downs, but he said "just chalk it" (and did offer to loan us his chalks).  He also made it clear that was NOT part of his FBO and they would take no responsibility for if it was over there.  I was like "we're here 10 days, I'm not leaving my plane out in the middle of the apron with just chalks."

 

This is where the unhelpful part of the experience was..  So we asked "where do transients park on this field?"  Response, "shrug, I dunno, I guess we're the only place."  Then we asked "well, those other planes you have filling up your facility, when do they leave?"  Response:  They are permanently based here, they don't leave.  Question: Well, so you have no transient parking at all?  Response:  I guess not.  Question:  Is there any one we can call to get help?  Maybe we could put our own tie downs (which we carry with us) in the grass?  Response;  Well, you can't put them in our grass. I guess you could call the city airport authority they might be able to help you.  Question:  What is their phone number?  Response:  I don't have it and they all go home at 4 pm anyway (it was 6 pm).  Question:  Well what should we do?  Response:  Not really my problem ma'am, but you can't park here.  Question: You charge $14 a day to park on that apron that's not yours?  Response:  I don't charge you anything, the FBO does (now we've entered into the realm of sarcasm).  Question:  Well, we're going to try to tie down the field by the flying club, could you help tow our airplane?  Response:  No, we charge for that.  Question:  We'll pay.  Response:  We don't tow Mooneys, too much liability with your nose gear, we never tow them, it costs $2000 if we break them (sounds like they once towed Mooneys and did it wrong). 

 

Anyway we finally taxiied down to the incredibly friendly and sympathetic flying club on the airport (I could say a million great things about them! Talked to a few folks who were just arriving from Oshkosh, just like we were) and parked at their facility.  They said they didn't actually own the tie downs in front of the club that they belonged to the airport authority, but they took our name and contact info and they staff an office in front of the tie downs and said they'd happily make sure to communicate our precense to anyone if required.  They were actually only the tension wires on the ground, but we used our own ropes and feel good that the plane is secure.  They also made note that we were very smart not to leave the plane on the apron like we were being directed, with the airport sitting on the shores of Lake Ontario wind storms are kind of common and no one wants to come back after a vacation and find their planes flipped upside down.

 

Basically the whole thing was borderline crazy.  I've never been at an airport where the response at the one FBO was basically the message: "you're on your own, maybe you should just fly to some other airport if you want to tie down."  But I wanted to alert other pilots to be alert to the lack of transient parking issue.

[FBCK]

Welcome to GA in Canada. I could tell you some stories ($360 for two nights to hangar my plane, should of asked, a $30- walkout fee to fuel the plane, the guy was standing in front of the fuel pump when I came in etc). I think its the reason most Canadian actually go though the US when we do cross counties.

[Houman]

As a Canadian I can tell you that YMMV, not all FBO's are that bad, but not all of them are great. We obviously and unfortunetly don't have the same GA budget for FBO and all, so some of the places are a bit old, but the people are usually nice. I guess those that you encounter are the exception...

 

At least the flying club were nice !!!

[wiguy]

 That does sound a little crazy.   I had a GREAT experience at the Brandon Flying Club, Southish of Winnepeg, as we landed for the night due to weather. This was just over a year ago.

 

  The winds were 40 kts+, they were ready to tie us down as we taxied in. Before I knew it I had the keys to the 'courtesy type' vehicle & directions on where to go. I think  I had a few Labatts to wash the trail dust after that flight. The next day the weather was fine for the flight to the U.S..

[Piloto]

You find the same courtesy here in the US and in Europe. Best thing to do is to call by phone in advance. Specially if you need fuel or a rental car. You may find that the ramp fuel pump is broke. Always carry ropes, chucks, tow bar. I had my chucks stolen twice so I chain them to the wheel.

 

José 

[Gone]

The FBO at Kingston is a badly run commercial operation.  Always has been.  I got my license at the Kingston Flying Club and I can tell you that most of the owners who park their aircraft in the club hanger or in the one to the East of it only use the FBO for the gas.

 

KFC is a great place, Byron - as you have already discovered.

 

Welcome to the Great White North.

[yvesg]

When I fly to Kingston, I always park in front of the Kingston flying club. But it is usually for just. a few hours. I usually try to go to flying clubs in Canada when the airport is large enough to have then and an FBO. Most Canadian FBOs are not there to help you... they are there to support the jets and the attitude we get make you feel like you are an annoyance to them... but there are exceptions.

I do not know ANY FBO in Canada where they have a crew car. The only place I know where there is not one in the US is ST-Clair County. (Port Huron, MI)

Becca, one of the MooneySpacers is from Kingston. He is a good friend of Ned and I (he did formation training with us). I will try to connect you with him. He might be able to help you in some ways.

Regards,

Yves

[Becca]

Yves, definitely send him our way always love to meet fellow Mooney people when we travel. We have a family cottage near Kingston and will be back. Car isn't an issue because dad spends the summer, he can always pick us up. We did notice there were two Canadian Mooneys parked at the FBO...

Anyway I'm thankful the flying club took care of us, the whole thing was a weird experience compared to a US FBO who would at least try to help... Usually it the Canadians who are the nice ones and we Yankees are the "rude" ones..

[yvesg]

Yves, definitely send him our way always love to meet fellow Mooney people when we travel. We have a family cottage near Kingston and will be back. Car isn't an issue because dad spends the summer, he can always pick us up. We did notice there were two Canadian Mooneys parked at the FBO...

Anyway I'm thankful the flying club took care of us, the whole thing was a weird experience compared to a US FBO who would at least try to help... Usually it the Canadians who are the nice ones and we Yankees are the "rude" ones..

Becca, please send me in private a phone number I can reach you in case I get a hold of our Kingston friend Andrew.

Yves

[yvesg]

Is there a web site like airnav.com for Canadian airports? I'd like to leave a review of an FBO somewhere to alert other pilots of my experience...

The closest equivalent to airnav.com is this from COPA:

http://archive.copanational.org/PlacesToFly/index.php

They rate Kingston as "Friendly GA Airport"... I think they put this rating for any airport that does not have any landing fees. They state that parking is free at the flying club.

Yves

[fantom]

... Usually it the Canadians who are the nice ones and we Yankees are the "rude" ones..

 

Good service and rudeness, like beauty and contact lenses, is most often in the eye and bias of the beholder.

[aviatoreb]

Becca - stop by say hello in Kptd!

[Guest]

I would suggest dropping a line to Kingston city council, Kingston Chamber of Commerce and the local tourism office to let them know of your less than pleasing experience.

Clarence

[Becca]

Interesting follow up.. As we departed yesterday they were out of 100LL on a beautiful vfr Saturday morning with a full ramp of gas guzzlers stranded there.. Thankfully we had it enough to make it back over the border and weren't trapped.

I am going to drop a line to the Kingston chamber of commerce.