Pre-buy next weekend, advice....

[Flyingtexan]

I have the annual inspection checklist from Mooney and plan on following it to the letter, besides compressions, logbooks, AD's and the dreaded sub-spar any lessons learned on things to pay particular attention to that might be outside the box? It's a 1968 C model. I'm an A&P and will have an experience IA with me.

[chrisk]

Check the nose gear truss for dents.

[Hank]

Check both tanks for signs of leaks . . . This can be as simple as filling the tanks to the top before you start working, and checking the level in both when you are done [or before running the engine].

[Marauder]

Make sure the logbook adds and subtracts match up with what is in the plane. Sometimes people change things out and forget to record the change out. Or the removal. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[pinerunner]

I went all over the outside looking for loose rivets.  If an area has started to "work" a little bit rivets can loosen and develop a dark ring. Since the skin itself is structural something deeper inside losing integrity would transmit extra stress to the skin, speeding up the loosening process.

 

We used to see it with the seaplane which takes a beating going over waves. It'll show right through the paint.

 

The previous owner let me get my biannual in the M20E I now own with an instructor friend of his. It gave me a chance to get a little more intimate with it and I've been very happy with the result. Great sales strategy, by the way. 

[Andy95W]

Paul Loewen from LASAR has a few things on his web site. You can google Mooney pre purchase inspection and lots of stuff comes up.

Definitely try:

http://www.lasar.com/sales/buyers-guide.asp

Scroll to the bottom and you will find "Loewens recommendations". I suggest printing that out, along with your other notes.

Don Maxwell has some interesting things on his site as well.

I also suggest having the current owner fly the airplane first to give you a chance to sit back and take everything in, as well as looking at the radios, instruments, etc. to see if everything is working. This will also give you a chance to see how the current owner uses (abuses?) the airplane on a day to day basis.

Then of course you should fly the second leg to give you a feel for the airplane yourself.

I will message you back today. Sorry I haven't sooner.

[Andy95W]

And another LASAR page:

http://www.lasar.com/sales/checklist.asp

[KSMooniac]

The annual checklist is good, but I'd start with the major show-stoppers first, so that you don't waste time checking rod ends on the gear doors (for example) only to find out there is major internal corrosion 6 hours into the inspection.  I'd go in order something along these lines:

 

1.  Logbooks inspected (hopefully done via scanned books before going to the plane)  Hopefully they show continuous use AND maintenance...if there are no entries between annuals, and only a few hours difference then this is a red flag!

2.  Thorough pre-flight inspection.  (brakes, tires, fuel stains/odors, damage/repairs, etc.) 

3.  Test flight-check performance, rigging, avionics & autopilot function, etc.

4.  De-cowl and check compressions hot.

5.  Remove rear seat and at least one interior panel to check for corrosion in the wing spar and steel cage

6.  Remove the tailcone access panel and stick your head in for a look.

7.  Look under/behind the panel and see if it is neat and tidy or a rat's nest.

 

Assuming you get this far with no show-stoppers, then proceed with the rest of the inspection list, which is pretty much maintenance items IMO.  If you're turning it into a full annual, then of course check everything.  Certainly open the belly and some wing panels to look for corrosion and indication of damage, state of lubrication, etc.  If you don't find any (or much) evidence of lubrication, then you didn't have a good owner and you should investigate more thoroughly.  

 

Good luck!

[DonMuncy]

Why wouldn't you do the corrosion inspection first. To me, that is the first deal breaker.

[KSMooniac]

Why wouldn't you do the corrosion inspection first. To me, that is the first deal breaker.

 

IMO, the corrosion check requires some dis-assembly, so that is why I put it after the test flight.  If it is suspected, though, then it should certainly be moved to the top of the list.  

[orionflt]

a cursory corrosion inspection can be done by looking in the wheel wells, if there are signs of fuel leaks, loose or missing rivets, or any general corrosion then i would immediately look deeper. if the wheel wells look clean then I would save the indepth look until i was ready to make an offer.

 

Brian 

[Flyingtexan]

Andy,

Thanks for the checklists, helped a lot.

[Flyingtexan]

Don,

I think you're right on. With all the scary stories of spar corrosion that's first on the list for me.

Thanks

[Flyingtexan]

Thanks to everyone who chimed in. I'm going up tomorrow for a first look and maybe a flight in it. Then the following weekend to do the pre-buy. Anyone see a problem with making an offer after the first look with a deposit, all contingent on the pre-buy results? Or should the pre-buy come first?

[Hank]

My advice:  contract first, contingent upon PPI. Do the inspection, leave the plane open to discuss needed vs. wanted repairs. If you reach a successful conclusion, make required repairs and roll into annual since it's all open already. If the repair negotiation is unsuccessful, close her up and move to the next one.

 

This advice is worth every penny that you paid for it.    If it saves you money and frustration, I will always accept a contribution to my avgas fund . . . 

 

Hope everything works out well for you. Fly safe! and keep us posted—enquiring minds and all that.

[Flyingtexan]

Thanks Hank,

We may do that whole annual thing, since it's due in July. I'm going to add that in on the negotiation play. Check your PM for the link to the ad on trade a plane.

[47U]

I would suggest procuring a recent copy of the FAA CD from OK City. It gives you a chance to compare 337s that were filed with the FAA and may have subsequently "dissappeared" from the log books... and vice versa. I've seen 337s in the log books that were never sent to the FAA.

You also can look at the ownership history through the years and get a feel for where the airplane was based. If it was near the coast for a period of time might warrant closer scrutiny on the corrosion inspection vs. say, Arizona.

[DrBill]

Be careful removing the lower cowl....  UNBOLT the ram air boot FIRST !!!  Otherwise it tears when you find it's the thing holding the cowl on and then it's another $300 bill.

 

Bill

[KSMooniac]

You should have a signed purchase agreement in place (including all terms) before starting a pre-buy inspection.  The seller should demand it, in fact, before allowing anyone to tear into the airplane.  See the plane, do your inspection (not the PPI), examine the logs, fly it, feel out the owner, etc. and then make an offer.  Your agreed-upon price should include the contingencies that might come up in the PPI.

 

Good luck!

[Andy95W]

So, how did it look?

[Flyingtexan]

Looked good and as described, well the interior isn't an 8, more like a 6 but we talked about it. We both came to an agreement on price (lower than asking) which included the current owner doing the annual and then delivering the aircraft. It looks like a solid, simple no frills IFR aircraft. I'll know more when we dig into it on the pre-buy. On top of the fact that a local airplane that I can touch and be involved in the inspection process speaks mountains to me, vs. paying for a pre-buy and all the logistics included in that process if I were to find one in Timbuktu. The tail number has never changed, it's the same one it rolled off the factory floor with, that's a good feeling with all the research and so on. We signed a purchase agreement so now it's a AOPA title search and the pre-buy.

[Hank]

Congratulations!

 

Will the shop let you either watch / help / do owner-assist on the annual? It's a great way to learn the plane, even if you're only crawling underneath with a grease gun and can of tri-flow.

[Flyingtexan]

We're probably not going to be able to do that. However we're basically going to do an annual, minus the gear swing during the pre-buy.

[Marauder]

Looked good and as described, well the interior isn't an 8, more like a 6 but we talked about it. We both came to an agreement on price (lower than asking) which included the current owner doing the annual and then delivering the aircraft. It looks like a solid, simple no frills IFR aircraft. I'll know more when we dig into it on the pre-buy. On top of the fact that a local airplane that I can touch and be involved in the inspection process speaks mountains to me, vs. paying for a pre-buy and all the logistics included in that process if I were to find one in Timbuktu. The tail number has never changed, it's the same one it rolled off the factory floor with, that's a good feeling with all the research and so on. We signed a purchase agreement so now it's a AOPA title search and the pre-buy.

We have a saying around here... It didn't happen unless there are pictures! Love to see what you purchased.

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[Flyingtexan]

I haven't purchased anything yet, but I will post pictures at some point.