M20L Engine Conversion

[DaV8or]

I think the M20Ls are hanging around waiting to go experimental and get the LS-7, derated Corvette engine conversion!   Oh Santa, next year for Christmas, bring me an FAA that will allow an Experimental / Factory Built category...

[MB65E]

It's called Experimental Exibition. Program letters and NM restrictions may apply.

-Matt

[DaV8or]

It's called Experimental Exibition. Program letters and NM restrictions may apply.

-Matt

 

Actually, a modified Mooney would fall into the Experimental / Research and Development category. Exhibition category is for planes like War Birds and uncertified foreign types. The E/RD category is even more restrictive and it is time limited.

[MB65E]

Correct, and it could go into market research catagory as well. Sounds like you know the deal.

[carusoam]

What is the weight of the LS7 and gearbox compared to an IO550?

The engine mount is going to need to be as short as possible to bring the CG aft...

A new LS7 costs about 15k?

Where do I find a used LS7? How much for that?

Thinking along with Dave,

-a-

[triple8s]

I was into building a homebuilt for several years and in the begining I was very interested in auto engine conversions and after years of watching the trials and tribulations of others my hankerin for an auto conversion faded away. Its true that several auto engines make better candidates than others but I have yet to see any engines that were designed for the automotive industry be better for use in an aircraft than an engine designed for an aircraft. it always seems to be something that shows up to be that engines achilles heel. For example the covair engine which was a favorite for the group i was in was supposed to be a good one, it had a good power to weight ratio, didnt have to turn too fast to mae good power so it needed no psru. It had good heads and valve train didnt need a 50 hr valve adjustment like the VW (another good one), but after a good friend had a crank break THREE times I have decided that yes an engine built and designed from inception to live in a car should probably stay there, and an aircraft engine will probably work best in the air. These things all being said I love to see these conversions and there are lots of things learned by these brave folks, but the folks at TCM and LYC would make changes to their engines as the auto folks have if it was that easy.

As for the L Mooneys left that have a FWF I do not see why a TCM 520, a TCM 470 or a LYC 540 couldnt be used. the 520is very close to what a 550 is and there are many long mooneys with the 550 out there and there are lots of long bodies out there with the 540 LYC as well, I dont see why either would be hard to get approved and they are indeed plentiful.

[Matías Equiza]

On 3/16/2014 at 6:58 PM, carusoam said:

The ill-powered PFM never got to demonstrate it's real challenges...

 

MGTW is limited to one person with full tanks.

 

There has been rapid evolution of the long body since...

 

Step 1: PFM - low power, low MGTW, longevity and overhaul issues.

 

Step 2: TLS - better power, better MGTW, but cylinder wear challenged..

 

Step 3: Bravo - same as the TLS, but better longevity. A great Long Body, but doesn't like LOP.

 

Step 4: Ovation - 280 N/A hp, good power and excellent longevity (depending), loves LOP.

 

Step 5: Acclaim - 280 TN hp, good power from the ground through altitude.

 

Step 6: Ovation 3 - 310 N/A hp, great power, and excellent longevity (depending) balanced for LOP.

 

Next step: Acclaim 2 - 310 TN hp, great power all the way into the flight levels...

 

 

 

Either way...

 

Less than 280 hp and N/A Long Body would be considered under powered by most pilots.

 

The PFM's MGTW is limited at a too low number. Full fuel has enough GW to take the pilot a long distance.

 

The M20M 270hp? uses up a lot of runway, but makes up for it at altitude.

 

The N/A 240 hp of the original Eagle usually gets swapped out at first economic chance the owner gets.

 

Putting a different engine on an airframe requires an STC which can be purchased or it requires a significant testing and documentation program if the STC does not already exist. It would be considered unusual for a person with ordinary means to be able to afford this type of change.

 

Chasing down the PFM to recreate it would be the equivalent of (insert your version of a very empty feeling)...

 

Mooney is known for its combination of speed and efficiency. It is often valued for it's built in America status. The longevity of the airframe and engine has been key to it's success.

 

The PFM was missing these key characteristics.

 

If you can find a way to put an airworthy engine on it, you have accomplished Step one.

 

There are PFM airframes and undocumented IO550 engines available. This would be a project for someone with an aviation background that may include engineering and or A&P level mechanic skills.

 

Best regards,

 

-a-

 

Let me know if I missed something. I can edit any mistakes!

Hello, could you help me to find an old STC to convert My Mooney M20L to M20R?

[AerostarDriver]

I have 2 GTSIO-520-C20 engines for sale with props. Would be interesting on an L model. 

[jetdriven]

1 hour ago, Matías Equiza said:

Hello, could you help me to find an old STC to convert My Mooney M20L to M20R?

You’re asking for something that does not exist. Mod works in Punta Gorda Florida back in like the late 90s had some STC to do this, but the hurricane hit the facility and since the owner had no hangup keepers insurance he was faced with hurl of lawsuits and claims,  he fled for Alaska. That was 20 years ago. 

[Matías Equiza]

17 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

You’re asking for something that does not exist. Mod works in Punta Gorda Florida back in like the late 90s had some STC to do this, but the hurricane hit the facility and since the owner had no hangup keepers insurance he was faced with hurl of lawsuits and claims,  he fled for Alaska. That was 20 years ago. 

Maybe some owner that have the paperwork?

[Matías Equiza]

Just now, Matías Equiza said:

Maybe some owner that have the paperwork?

I only need the document to work here with ANAC authorities and convert that document in a new ITA for us.. with that documents (a copy) I can use as antecedents and through an ITA make airworthy my mooney that was modified as M20R without that STC

[KSMooniac]

What is an ITA? Perhaps your aviation authority does not follow our FAA, because what you are trying to do is not permitted in the US or with an N-registered plane.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

[1980Mooney]

53 minutes ago, Matías Equiza said:

I only need the document to work here with ANAC authorities and convert that document in a new ITA for us.. with that documents (a copy) I can use as antecedents and through an ITA make airworthy my mooney that was modified as M20R without that STC

Perhaps something is lost in translation.  You asked the same question in a different topic.

Contact @bfreelove and @VA FLYER here.  They both have M20L conversions to IO-550/

 

[EricJ]

15 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

What is an ITA? Perhaps your aviation authority does not follow our FAA, because what you are trying to do is not permitted in the US or with an N-registered plane.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk
 

I think that's what he's saying, that their authority, the ITA, only needs the approved data from the STC for his airplane to be legal.   His airplane is not in the US and not N-registered, so if he can get the approved data he'll be fine.    That's my understanding of the situation based on what he's been saying.

[KSMooniac]

We've got a bit of a language barrier, but from context I think ANAC is their FAA equivalent, but I do not understand what an ITA is.  Could be equivalent to an IA, or a DER, or some other authority.  None of the L conversion owners will have the data submitted for FAA approval as that stays with the STC holder and the FAA (think reports, test results, and other substantiation).  At best, the owners could provide W&B changes, POH supplements, and perhaps an installation drawing and bill of material for airplane mods.  Perhaps that is enough there, but it is completely inadequate here.  

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, EricJ said:

I think that's what he's saying, that their authority, the ITA, only needs the approved data from the STC for his airplane to be legal.   His airplane is not in the US and not N-registered, so if he can get the approved data he'll be fine.    That's my understanding of the situation based on what he's been saying.

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/international/bilateral_agreements/baa_basa_listing/media/ArgentinaSIP.pdf