Alan Fox Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 I used to slip my B w/no problems , but with my E I have got lazy , I just pitch it up to gear speed , drop the wheels wait until it hits flap speed and drop them too , get down to about 70 knots and then nose it over drops fine , I find that I do this very rarely as I almost always fly far enough ahead of the airplane that this is a non issue...... Quote
carusoam Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 Mooney Bob... First there were M18s. Single seaters... Then there were M20s. Wooden tailed four seaters.... They evolved into M20As and most got their tails updated with aluminum ones. Then the 60s came along Bs turned into Cs, Ds came out with fixed legs for the training crowd. Es were most advanced with FI. In 65 they all got rectangular shaped windows... In the late 60s they stretched the E to allow for passengers with legs to sit in the back. Called it the F. The G, like the F, was stretched but had the carbureted engine of the C... When the 70s rolled in. The F was modernized, aerodynamicized into the J or 201. The J got "improved" to the level of serious cross country traveler by adding a turbo charged engine. It got the name K or 231. J&K were the long bodies until Porsche supplied Mooney with a new more powerful engine (217hp air cooled) to go into the L. The modern Long Body... The long Body was a great plane in search of a great power plant. Lycoming supplied a turbocharged IO540 (270hp), with modifications it became the Bravo. Pre modifications it was briefly known as the TLS. Continental came to the forefront with their IO550 to power the fastest, normally aspirated, factory built planes. There a few revisions of the IO550, (A), (G), (N) used in Mooneys. The coolest ones develop 310hp for the Long Body crowd. The most interesting one has a full feathering prop that powers the Missile. The long bodies are the Ovation ® rev 3, the Eagle (S) sometimes delivered with a reversible underpower mod?, and the ultimate Mooney in current production is called the Acclaim (TN'd S). The Acclaim can be 280 hp or upped to 310hp delivered at altitude thanks in part to a pair of turbo normalizers. There are a few other Mooneys of interest, a pressurized six seater, a twin, a pair of military tandem seaters come to mind. The last scheduled development included a RR turbo prop. Picture how fast that long body would have gone! There is a Book or two if you are interested... How did I do? (that's from my fuzzy memory!) Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
MooneyBob Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 You did pretty, pretty good. I love everything about planes - flying, mechanics, gadgets, history. Thank you for the info. I can't wait to meet you in person on the next NJ Mooney Pilots fly out. I hope it will be soon. Unfortunately we have another two weeks cold, nasty and windy weather. Quote
Bob_Belville Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 http://www.mooneyevents.com/chrono.htm Quote
HartParr Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 Humm, I'm guessing your instructor might not be as familiar with the various Mooney models as he possibly should be to say that. I think he might have been comparing my E to some plane with no flaps or maybe he was making the point that needing to slip on final is poor judgement and not a very stable approach. Quote
carusoam Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 Jolie has mentioned that we can speak with THE engineer (Bill Wheat) at the Mooney home coming. Coming soon in Kerville. Keep in mind Bill signed off my M20C's airworthiness flights in it's log book in August 1965. It would be interesting to make that trip... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
triple8s Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 I haven't heard how the necessity of having to use flaps to land instead of proper planning and speed control means we are bad pilots as I have about the speed brakes. I used to love to slip my C with or without flaps, sometimes I needed to slip it and other times I chose to use a slip to postion the plane and dissipate the energy such that a nice landing was the result. IMHO a good pilot has the ability to use all the tools in the toolbox to achieve the goal, tools can be, the brain, the flaps, the slip, the speed brakes, the throttle, and yes even the landing gear. I was building a homebuilt and at one of the gatherings I was told that us builders who built in flaps and a nose gear were less a pilot, maybe so, but like I said, learn to use all the tools because oneday you may reach into the toolbox for channel locks and have to settle for vise grips. 1 Quote
MooneyBob Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 Mooney Bob... First there were M18s. Single seaters... Then there were M20s. Wooden tailed four seaters.... They evolved into M20As and most got their tails updated with aluminum ones. Then the 60s came along Bs turned into Cs, Ds came out with fixed legs for the training crowd. Es were most advanced with FI. In 65 they all got rectangular shaped windows... In the late 60s they stretched the E to allow for passengers with legs to sit in the back. Called it the F. The G, like the F, was stretched but had the carbureted engine of the C... When the 70s rolled in. The F was modernized, aerodynamicized into the J or 201. The J got "improved" to the level of serious cross country traveler by adding a turbo charged engine. It got the name K or 231. J&K were the long bodies until Porsche supplied Mooney with a new more powerful engine (217hp air cooled) to go into the L. The modern Long Body... The long Body was a great plane in search of a great power plant. Lycoming supplied a turbocharged IO540 (270hp), with modifications it became the Bravo. Pre modifications it was briefly known as the TLS. Continental came to the forefront with their IO550 to power the fastest, normally aspirated, factory built planes. There a few revisions of the IO550, (A), (G), (N) used in Mooneys. The coolest ones develop 310hp for the Long Body crowd. The most interesting one has a full feathering prop that powers the Missile. The long bodies are the Ovation ® rev 3, the Eagle (S) sometimes delivered with a reversible underpower mod?, and the ultimate Mooney in current production is called the Acclaim (TN'd S). The Acclaim can be 280 hp or upped to 310hp delivered at altitude thanks in part to a pair of turbo normalizers. There are a few other Mooneys of interest, a pressurized six seater, a twin, a pair of military tandem seaters come to mind. The last scheduled development included a RR turbo prop. Picture how fast that long body would have gone! There is a Book or two if you are interested... How did I do? (that's from my fuzzy memory!) Best regards, -a- Do we know why Porsche engine didn't work out? Quote
carusoam Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 Something related to valve springs not working out followed by Porsche deciding to not be in the Aviation business. They make a reputable air cooled engine, but the airplane world runs at a higher output, continuously, compared to the automotive world... The engine they selected to use was relatively underpowered for the direction that the Long Bodies were heading. 217 vs 310hp in the "same" air frame... Overall, leaving airframes without viable engines, and a handful of weirdness and oddities that go with that. Best regards, -a- Quote
MooneyBob Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 Something related to valve springs not working out followed by Porsche deciding to not be in the Aviation business. They make a reputable air cooled engine, but the airplane world runs at a higher output, continuously, compared to the automotive world... The engine they selected to use was relatively underpowered for the direction that the Long Bodies were heading. 217 vs 310hp in the "same" air frame... Overall, leaving airframes without viable engines, and a handful of weirdness and oddities that go with that. Best regards, -a- Thanks. Quote
SkyPilot Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 I slip the M20F I have all the time. It is not too exciting but it helps a little .As long as you don't feel any buffeting you are not blanketing your tail feathers. And just keep the speeds in the limits and you won't wrinkle anything. I've done a lot of full flap short field landings in bush planes so I am used to a dirtier airframe. The Mooney is just too clean. Gotta do something to dirty it up. Speed brakes would be nice. Anybody know if the gear mod is still available to upgrade to the 252 gear motor and torque tubes? I emailed the dealer with no reply. Quote
Jerry 5TJ Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 I slip the "C" but maintain 90-100 mph to maximize drag - I'm slipping because I'm high and/or fast - and because I want to be well above stall in a full slip. After all "load up the wing and yaw" is the formula for snap roll entry. Quote
piperpainter Posted February 26, 2014 Report Posted February 26, 2014 Slip it, slip it real good!!! Quote
MB65E Posted February 26, 2014 Report Posted February 26, 2014 In regards to the Porsche comment, I had heard Porsche left was due to Mobile 1. Mobile had a lawsuit due to the design on the oil cap on the bottle. The "safety ring" on the cap was poured into an engine. After the lawsuit, Porsche and Mobile 1 never had another aerospace adventure. If take off an Aeroshell cap, notice how the ring comes with the cap. Back then, Mobile's rings were falling into engines... I Never found documents stating that, but it makes for a good story, in odd enough way to possibly be true. -Matt Quote
DaV8or Posted February 26, 2014 Report Posted February 26, 2014 IMHO a good pilot has the ability to use all the tools in the toolbox to achieve the goal, tools can be, the brain, the flaps, the slip, the speed brakes, the throttle, and yes even the landing gear. Don't forget the prop. Big difference in decent rate between fine and course pitch. Quote
Alan Fox Posted February 28, 2014 Report Posted February 28, 2014 Porsche engine was a dog , also geared , was not a success story for mooney , The Valve springs are an AD that came later , they have to be replaced every 500 hours , problem being nobody is certified to produce them...ergo when your valve springs hit 500 hours your engine is no longer airworthy.....The valve springs are more than likely the same as the car engines , but Porche will not sell them as an aviation part, they don't want the liability , and I don't blame them.....There were only a handful to begin with , now there are none.... Quote
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