Prospective Buyer- Ovation 2 Oxygen System Questions

[Mike34]

Hello all,

 

I am in the process of acquiring an Ovation 2, and I have some questions regarding the oxygen system. It has the built-in 115 cu. ft. system (which I believe is standard on the Ovation 2 models). What type of system delivers the oxygen? Constant flow, EDS, etc. How long will that last me at altitude? I figure I will be cruising at 15000-17000. I am also looking at masks with built-in mics. Any recommendations? I heard that Mountain High makes a good mask for a good price. I appreciate any help you can provide, as I am new to the Mooney and its systems.

 

Thanks,

 

Mike Novak

Commercial ASEL AMEL IRA

[Mcstealth]

Welcome. You picked a good forum. Not that you can make a bad one, but good choice on models IMO. Parker on this site has experience with you mask question. He will be a around shortly.

Post your pictures.

David

[Awful_Charlie]

I'm not sure what's in a Ovation, but on the basis it is the same as what's installed in a Bravo, the unit is a constant flow with an altitude compensated regulator.  If you use it in the simplest form, then there are duration charts in the POH (which gives something like 14 man-hours for a full charge at FL170), but you can improve significantly the duration by using an Oximiser type cannula with a flow meter.  With the built in regulator, this means that you can pretty much set the flow at one altitude, and it then sorts itself out as you climb and descend, I would say the oximisers about halve the consumption.

 

If you want to really increase the duration, you can get the secondary regulator and use the EDS units, but this is quite an expensive add-on.  If you are going to use masks, then without the EDS units  these will get through more oxygen, and you will waste more - the masks with mics are also fiendishly expensive, I only use mine when up over FL180-190 or so. I don't find them as comfortable or practical as the oximiser cannula, naturally YMMV with that.

 

I rent a big (?50 litre) bottle which is supplied at 3000PSI, and one of those, although theoretically only having 3 complete fills of the aircraft cylinder, lasts me about a year, but it is rare I need a full cylinder in the aircraft for trips. With the oximiser I can do a 3 hour out and 3 hours back trip at FL180/190, two up, and depart with way less than 1000PSI.  The rental cylinder costs me about 70CHF (near the same as a dollar) a year to rent and another 70CHF to exchange for a full one, so spending 1000+ bucks on EDS kit didn't make sense in my case.

[Danb]

Charlie nailed it, I have aBravo with the same system and utilize as he stated. I hate the mask so generally just have it near by, the only thing I would add is to buy 1 or 2 pulseoximeters so u can keep ur o2 saturation levels in your comfort zone ie I need o2 above 8000 and my wife needs is around 13000 go figure, This you'll find useful and in the long run keeps u safer and alive most likely will save o2 by keeping it in Your range. Good luck

[AndyFromCB]

Make sure the cylinder is not timed out. It has a 15 year life span I think at which point it must be replaced. Mine looked brand new, but rules are rules in this case. 

[kortopates]

Although which type and band of cannula and mask you get is somewhat a personal choice, I'd suggest Precise Flights A5 flow meter as the best flow meter out there. http://preciseflight.com/general-aviation/shop/product/a-5-flow-meter-tubing/  You'll need a Scott oxygen connector at the input side of the flow meter and if you need them, you can get them here: http://preciseflight.com/general-aviation/shop/product/scott-style-connector/ 

 

Masks are a more personal choice, Aerox, Mountain High and Precise flight all have good ones; but I do like Mountain Highs newer design that does not need the the bag on the mask: http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/face-masks/face-mask 

 

As others have already said, get a pulseoximeter to monitor your 02 saturation and use it to keep your 02 level above 90%. Although there are many cheap pulseoximeter available out there, get a good one that is accurate and will last you a long time and won't break the first time you drop it is well worth the added money IMO; especially once you come to recognize they are essential equipment to flying in the 02 altitudes. Nonin is a recognized manufacturer for the medical industry that makes a good, accurate and reliable one for aviation that is reviewed here: http://www.avweb.com/news/aeromed/181936-1.html?redirected=1 I have an earlier model (Nonin Flightstat) that has been going strong for over a dozen years now. 

[Mike34]

Thank you all for the replies. I will put this knowledge to good use. One more question. If I wanted to do a mask compatible system in my airplane, i.e. install an EDS system, what supplies would I need? Do I need a new O2 bottle, regulator, etc.? Again, the system in the Ovation 2 is the constant flow with altitude compensated regulator. 

 

Thanks,

 

Mike Novak

Commercial ASEL AMEL IRA

[Awful_Charlie]

I would add is to buy 1 or 2 pulseoximeters so u can keep ur o2 saturation levels in your comfort zone ie I need o2 above 8000 and my wife needs is around 13000 go figure,

DanB got it - absolutely get an oximeter.  Whether it reads ppm or %O2, get to know your figure and only accept a small reduction, until you work out what works for you and your pax (they might not be the same!). I want over 90%, preferably 92 or 93, and set the stopwatch for a 5 min re-check

 

Make sure the cylinder is not timed out. It has a 15 year life span I think at which point it must be replaced. Mine looked brand new, but rules are rules in this case. 

It's a 1.5AMU job for a new cylinder, plus the regulator test and swap, plus the labor & time to do it. The cylinder also needs a hydrostat test every 3 or 5 years (depending on the paperwork you get) which along with a regulator test, expect somewhere around 500USD each time

 

Although which type and band of cannula and mask you get is somewhat a personal choice, I'd suggest Precise Flights A5 flow meter as the best flow meter out there. http://preciseflight.com/general-aviation/shop/product/a-5-flow-meter-tubing/  You'll need a Scott oxygen connector at the input side of the flow meter and if you need them, you can get them here: http://preciseflight.com/general-aviation/shop/product/scott-style-connector/ 

 

Masks are a more personal choice, Aerox, Mountain High and Precise flight all have good ones; but I do like Mountain Highs newer design that does not need the the bag on the mask: http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/face-masks/face-mask

 

Agreed, the only masks I've got any significant time with are the MH 'Alps' mask, which does the job, and is among the least expensive (albeit far from cheap for what it is) from what is available in the certified range. If you go play with the alternatives, come back with a PIREP!

 

If you want to go EDS, then you need the pressure regulator reducer (eg http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/pressure-regulators/reducing-regulators ), with the Scott adapter, then the EDS unit per place, and the masks/cannulas to suit (connecting to the EDS unit). You can get EDS units for one or two places, the regulator has a maximum capacity in terms of people and flow. The existing cylinder and regulator will be usable (assuming they are in date themselves), Depending on your headset and avionics inputs, you might also need adapters for the mics - if you have the basic two jack sockets it is easy, but if you have the Bose multi pin socket and the basic two, you might well need to do some trial and error to see what happens when you plug the mask mic in with the headset still connected

 

[kortopates]

The EDS system by Mountain High was designed for portable systems where they provide the most advantage with small portable tanks.. With a 115 cu-ft tank you can carry plenty of 02 making them unnecessary complication to your O2 system.  

 

Instead, if you'd like to save $ on O2 and plan to fly high regularly,  I suggest spending a few hundred dollars on a transfilling system. With that and a couple 02 tanks to keep in your hangar you can fill your tank yourself for a fraction of the cost an FBO charges.  You can buy or lease a 02 cylinders from your local gas supplier. The last time I ever had to fill my tank away from home was from flying from CA to Central America rt and that's was with 2 people/pilots on board. I just don't see any value in an EDS system with a 115 O2 tank onboard - but that's just my opinion.

[Will W]

I also have an Ovation 2.  There is a chart supplement for the built in oxygen system that will give usage times.

 

Here is a link to the chart supplement in PDF format from the Mooney website.

http://www.mooney.com/images/pdfs/afmPDFs/OXYGEN_SYST-J-K-L-S.pdf

 

When I bought a mask and cannula, I went with aerox.  

http://aerox.com/product-category/masks-cannulas-and-kits/

Aerox has an adjustment and meter to adjust flow for altitude and Mooney uses the Scott fitting.  Call them directly and you can get some great deals that they don't offer online.  Especially when you buy more than one item.  Also, these guys are geniuses when it comes to answering questions relating to what these systems can do and meeting your goals.

 

This cannula the built in adjustment and flow meter.  The scott fitting and flow meter can be connected to a mask or cannula.

http://aerox.com/product/retro-fit-kit-with-scott-type-fitting-rev-b-4110-705-3

 

The Mask here for example needs the scott fitting and flow meter.

http://aerox.com/product/msk-aem-microphone-mask-assembly-medium-faa-approved-tso-c103-rev-e

 

The pulse oxymeter that I got has a great price and I only needed one and I keep spare batteries near by.

http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/13010

 

Get the oxy-saver and flow meters with your purchase of these and you will end up being above the chart lines.  Getting some without the flow meter and oxysaver adapter and you'll be about on or below (shorter time frame) than what the chart shows.

[jlunseth]

The diluter demand masks are around $3500, where the constant flow mask (w/ a mike) is around $400.  Probably you would use less O2 with a demand mask, but you can buy an awful lot of O2 for 3000.  The flow meters are nothing fancy, just a valve with a float/ball, but for my money they are more important than an oximeter.  After some experience you will not use the oximeter much if at all, as long as the flow valve tells you there is flow.

[Nordo]

I have not been able to find the specific FAA requirements/specs for cannulas.  Is it legal to use a medical cannula for flight?  A disposable Oxyarm (not Oxyarm Aviator) is only 9 bucks and can be easily attached to a headset.  I have not actually used it yet, but mine looks and fits just like the ones I have seen advertised for $100. Someone versed in the regulations please advise.

[kortopates]

See 23.1447

Aviation cannula's don't generally cost $100, that would include an adjustable flow meter and a connector. But I don't know what's included with the Aviation specific Oxyarm except for accessories to attach it to a headset. But to be meet aviation requirements it has to be connected through a flow meter or check valve so that you have a means of visually verifying the flow of O2. It's the flow meter and Scott connector that encompasses the bulk of the cannula cost. (Technically an aviation cannula has to have some placards on it - but you could make your own if you wanted to be fully compliant).

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[Will W]

Some other benefits of aerox cannulas are that they are designed to save oxygen and if you have one of their flow meters, you have a system that won't burn as much oxygen as one that is just flowing in through a medical cannula.  Like kortopates said, you can totally use a medical cannula if you want but you need a flow meter to monitor the flow and it doesn't hurt that you can also meter the flow.  The connection into the aircraft is also something you would have to buy.

 

So, in summary, you would have to buy:

• Cannula of some kind

• Flow meter w/ flow adjustment

• Mating piece for the hose to be plugged into the aircraft

 

I suggest you try giving Aerox a call and see what they say.  The last time I ordered from them the guy I got was the most honest person I met when it came to asking these questions and getting straight answers.  He even gave me a huge discount when I ordered from him.

[Nordo]

Thanks for the input.  I do have a all of the connections and flow meters.  I have used the standard over the ears cannulas and then saw the Oxyarm Aviator.  It is a clever design that attaches to your headset.  However, the Oxyarm Aviator is simply an adaptation of an existing medical device with "Aviator" in the name to warrant a 10-fold price hike.  Simply ordering the Oxyarm (medical version) from a medical supply is very inexpensive.  I simply broke apart the headband that it comes attached to and removed the ball from the ball and socket joint.  Then, I cut a 5/16" long piece of dowel from a broom stick and drilled a hole in the center to insert the ball joint with glue.  I sanded and painted it to make it look professional then attached to the earcup with double-sided mounting tape.  If anyone is interested, I can send pics.

[aviatoreb]

Thanks for the input.  I do have a all of the connections and flow meters.  I have used the standard over the ears cannulas and then saw the Oxyarm Aviator.  It is a clever design that attaches to your headset.  However, the Oxyarm Aviator is simply an adaptation of an existing medical device with "Aviator" in the name to warrant a 10-fold price hike.  Simply ordering the Oxyarm (medical version) from a medical supply is very inexpensive.  I simply broke apart the headband that it comes attached to and removed the ball from the ball and socket joint.  Then, I cut a 5/16" long piece of dowel from a broom stick and drilled a hole in the center to insert the ball joint with glue.  I sanded and painted it to make it look professional then attached to the earcup with double-sided mounting tape.  If anyone is interested, I can send pics.

 

I also purchased half a dozen medical-grade oxyarms - they are the same thing from the same assembly line as the 10x as expensive aviator version.  The company who sells the o2d2 sells the little metal button-ball thing for like $6 that attaches to the oxyarm and glues to your headset and it is very clean.

 

Oxyarm is the idea way to use a cannula.

[larryb]

Nordo: please send pics, I am very interested in doing this. Thanks.

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[Nordo]

Sorry for the delay.  I am TDY at Hill AFB, UT and won't be back until next Saturday.  Email me and I will send pics when I get home.  william_bolton@hotmail.com 

[Nordo]

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/35558-/

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/35554-oxyarm-ball-joint/

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/35555-oxyarm-ball-joint/

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/35556-oxyarm-ball-joint/

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/35557-oxyarm-ball-joint/