Hail damage repair-skin repair-fillers-bondo?

[John Pleisse]

I have a great 201 and I have put a lot into it. My a/c has hail damage that was so subtle, it took me years to really notice it. One day, the light reflected on the airframe the right way and it all became vivid. The airframe is over 4000 hours, the a/c had owners all over the country and it sat outside for years. Much has been repaired. My paint is 15 year old jet glow and is starting to flake. Bad paint, getting old. Since refinish will be in the future, my questions are:

 

1) Is there any other remedy for light hail damage (wings, fuselage) other than skin replacement or bondo filler?

 

2) Is there any other alternative to bondo that is reliable and will last on an aluminum airframe? Is there any newer, better filler technology?

 

3) What is the best paint system? I understand Imron has made a comeback. Is this true?

 

Best,

 

John

[Marauder]

John -- I'm going through this as well. My Mooney in the right light looks like a golf ball. Probably explains why it flies faster than other Fs.  I have spoken to three paint shops and here is what I have learned:

 

1) They can use bondo. The new type of filler is lightweight and can be used on the wings & fuselage. One of the shops said I could use it on flight controls, the other 3 said no. I have been searching for replacement ailerons and elevators. Maxwell can re-skin for $1200 per side and their suggestion was to flip the elevator and put the golf ball side down. Good idea. Maxwell also told me that they would be able to do the corrugated elevator since they bought the jig to stamp that metal. I called another shop and they quoted me $1500 per control surface. Lasar quoted me $6,700 for replacement control surfaces.

 

All agreed that the bondo can be used on the flaps.

 

2) From everyone I spoke with the new filler material will last. One thing though with using this approach is that you can expect the cost of the paint job to be higher due to the manual labor associated with working the filler material.

 

3) My golf ball was painted with AlumiGrip. Two of the shops still use it. I don't think Imron is back from what I heard.

 

Since we are in the same area, we should compare notes...

 

Chris

[KSMooniac]

I think filler is the only real option, and re-skinning the control surfaces (or replacement).  Modern aircraft fillers are lightweight and stable, so they shouldn't shrink over time like Bondo can.  Most paint jobs will be quoted with XX hours of labor to address things like this, and then you'll pay shop rate if the bodywork exceeds the included figure.  

 

My 2009 paint job used Sherwin Williams Jet Glo and Acry Glo products.  I don't think Imron is being used any longer...it probably contained some great components that the EPA no longer allows.  

 

Investigate your candidate paint shops in person and pay special attention to the detail of the prep work, and what they remove and paint separately.

[RJBrown]

One of the reasons I am glad Mod Works is gone is over hail damage fixed by bondo. The insurance company authorized some wing skin replacement but Mod Jerks only used bondo. Pretty big dents, big enough to convince the insurance to buy new. Well they scammed me and the insurance company. Up side was the bondo never came loose on me. I would not worry about bondo on the slight damage you describe.

 Imron is great paint. Poison to those working with it though. It is only safe to apply if using air fed respirators. If you can smell the paint you have exceeded safe exposure levels. Glossy and hard and tough. So hard that paint can crack with a dent instead of flexing like other paints. Once it looses its gloss it cannot be polished back. My plane was painted with Sherwin Williams Jet Glo.

[kmyfm20s]

Didn't someone post a thread on paint-less dent repair like on cars? I didn't remember but I thought the conclusion was that it wasn't viable option. Maybe someone can pipe in with the answer.

[Marauder]

Didn't someone post a thread on paint-less dent repair like on cars? I didn't remember but I thought the conclusion was that it wasn't viable option. Maybe someone can pipe in with the answer.

They did and I subscribed to the thread asking for airplane testimonials and he has not been heard of since... Sent from my overpriced iPad using Tapatalk

[RJBrown]

Paintless dent repair requires acces to the inside of the dent. They "massage" out the dents. I don't know about aluminum but they took a big hailstone dent out of my Sequioa's hood when it was brand new. I just called my body shop he said yes it can be done but it requires tool made specificly for aluminum and it it more difficult to get good results because of how aluminum "work hardens"

[Alan Fox]

Actually you can use whats called a "glue puller"  it is a tool that uses hot glue to "bond" the slide puller to the pok marks , a skilled tech can pull these straight , but as far as control surfaces go I would go used , its going to be cheaper and better....

[Marauder]

Actually you can use whats called a "glue puller" it is a tool that uses hot glue to "bond" the slide puller to the pok marks , a skilled tech can pull these straight , but as far as control surfaces go I would go used , its going to be cheaper and better....

So Alan, you seen my plane which way would you go?

Sent from my overpriced iPad using Tapatalk

[Marauder]

And as far as replacement control surfaces. $6,700 is a bit rich for me... I would rather do the Maxwell flip and pay them $2,400 to reskin.

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[SkyPilot]

Nice Marauder: "overpriced iPad".

 

My bird was painted in 1994 with polyurethane and it still looks great! I have a few impact chips from the "hoppers" but I'll fix those when I put the 201 style windshield in in May. The airplane has always been hangered.

 

I'd favor re-skinning if I had to repair hail damage. I don't like filler. Plus, if I were looking for an airplane to purchase, I'd stay away from one with filler if I knew about it.

 

My opinion..

[Alan Fox]

I would leave it alone , the only one that notices it is you .....did you talk to Mathison ?  they do some extreme sheet metal work , and are local...

[Bob - S50]

John -- I'm going through this as well. My Mooney in the right light looks like a golf ball. Probably explains why it flies faster than other Fs.  I have spoken to three paint shops and here is what I have learned:

 

1) They can use bondo. The new type of filler is lightweight and can be used on the wings & fuselage. One of the shops said I could use it on flight controls, the other 3 said no. I have been searching for replacement ailerons and elevators. Maxwell can re-skin for $1200 per side and their suggestion was to flip the elevator and put the golf ball side down. Good idea. Maxwell also told me that they would be able to do the corrugated elevator since they bought the jig to stamp that metal. I called another shop and they quoted me $1500 per control surface. Lasar quoted me $6,700 for replacement control surfaces.

 

 

I believe the elevators have a weep hole on the bottom to let water out.  If you flip them the weep hole will be on top and let water in.  I'm guessing they could create a new weep hole to be on the bottom after the flip.  If you don't have one, any water in the elevator could freeze at altitude and create heavy elevators that would tend to run you nose down.  Might check with Maxwell about that if you go for that option.

 

Bob

[Alan Fox]

Actually you could trim out the elevators if that were the case , I would be more concerned about them being out of balance , which can cause flutter in extreme circumstances.....

[fantom]

Actually you can use whats called a "glue puller"  it is a tool that uses hot glue to "bond" the slide puller to the pok marks , a skilled tech can pull these straight , but as far as control surfaces go I would go used , its going to be cheaper and better....

 

I've seen a 'glue puller' do wonders on more than one Porsche Al fronk.

[jetdriven]

And as far as replacement control surfaces. $6,700 is a bit rich for me... I would rather do the Maxwell flip and pay them $2,400 to reskin.Sent from my overpriced iPad using Tapatalk

If you flip them you don't have to reskin the elevators if the new top surface is nice. We bought a used serviceable elevator from KSMooniac and flipped the hail-damaged left elevator to the right and sent the right elevator off to be reskinned at Dugosh for ~1200$. The bottom skin has a different cutout and you can see that after you flip it, plus you need to add a couple new drain holes as previously mentioned.

Ailerons are crazy. We just bought two new ones from the factory for 7 grand. Reskinned ones weren't much less and the places I talked to wouldn't guarantee they wouldn't be warped, twisted, or bowed.

I am interested in filler for our plane. We are getting it repainted soon and it has a few random dents here and there, plus the wing skin ahead of the spar is low in two rows over the stringers. I heard about PPG Aerospace Seam Seal and Sherwin Williams Fill-bond. Anyone used these or know of something better?

[rbridges]

my plane had fairings placed at the base of the wing against the fuselage long before I bought it.  I've seen this on a lot of planes, but they used filler material to blend it with the paint.  It looked great but over time and landings, it has started cracking.  It doesn't bother me since the crack is an outline of the fairing.  

 

Bottom line, the filler held up well.  The only place it failed was at the base of the wing, but I attribute that to flex during flying and landings.

[Alan Fox]

my plane had fairings placed at the base of the wing against the fuselage long before I bought it.  I've seen this on a lot of planes, but they used filler material to blend it with the paint.  It looked great but over time and landings, it has started cracking.  It doesn't bother me since the crack is an outline of the fairing.  

 

Bottom line, the filler held up well.  The only place it failed was at the base of the wing, but I attribute that to flex during flying and landings.

When I did the wing fillets on my B model , I secured them with screws and washers , Not as pretty , but can be removed for service / paint , same with the cowl closure..... 

[KSMooniac]

Byron,

 

Something I wish I did investigate before I painted is "profiling" the wing against some good airfoil templates to check for conformity with the design.  I think our early J's might not have the best workmanship and some benefits might be attainable by filling portions of the wing to get back to the proper contours and aerodynamic goodness.  With your racing habit, you might see some payoff so long as it doesn't require a ton of filler/weight.  

 

Mooney of course doesn't publish templates for this, but the wing and root airfoils are known, as well as the wing geometry.  Any engineering student with a CAD program and 30 minutes and model the wing and produce section cuts to make into masonite templates (like a homebuilder).  

 

I would NOT add filler between a fairing and an aluminum panel...that is just asking for cracks.  

[jetdriven]

Yes Scott I am looking hard at profiling the wing. I don't think it will add much weight. My chief concern is getting the etch-alodine-filler-primer right so it adheres properly and the paint shop will warranty the paint.