Adding a second landing light in the J cowl

[PTK]

Not looking to make this a long discussion but I was thinking of something.

 

With the advent of LED light bulbs and to take advantage of their very low current draw, it seems it'd be a great idea to add a second light in the cowl. Much like the K has.

 

Does anyone know if this would be a straight forward and easy minor alteration or would it involve more than that?

[Piloto]

I don't think there is any worth it advantage adding another light in the cowling. However there maybe for some adding landing wing tip lights. This would help on taxiways cluttered with cars, planes, trees, lightpoles, etc. This could be on the form of small laser beams LEDs that illuminate obstacles ahead. Nothing more disgusting than finding out that your hangar taxiway is cluttered with improperly parked cars or even boats.

 

José 

[Dave Marten]

Agree. Maybe LED wingtip lights, but I won't carve up the cowl. Many ramps are dark. My technique is an LED flashlight out the vent window. Helps spotting tiedowns, clearing obstacles, and even flagging down lineman.

The cowling mod could be done on a 337, but high cost low benefit.

[Bob_Belville]

Like this?

[PTK]

Yes Bob, something like that but for the J. Right next to the same exact fixture that's off-center in the cowl now.  

 

All you folks who say it's not worth it, don't you feel that more light is a good thing? It seems to me that it would be much easier to do this than in the wings or even wingtips! And the draw for both would be a small fraction of the current single bulb!

 

I haven't seen an LED fixture that's legal and a straight forward drop in replacement for the wingtips. 

 

But my question was not to discuss if it's worth it.

 

I was asking if it would be a straight forward and easy minor alteration or would it involve more than that?

[Bob_Belville]

I don't know.

 

Having said that I think I'd look at the LASAR 2nd light hardware used when an oil cooler on an E or F is moved from the lower cowl to behind #4 cyl. The rectangular hole that is left in the cowl is modified to take a standard size landing light.  http://www.lasar.com/mods.asp

 

If, big if?, thee is nothing in the way behind the skin in that area what you should be able to do is easier than reshaping the opening. You could cut the right size hole. With the 2nd light there wiring is very simple, ground one side and run a short wire from the other light to the + post. I don't suppose you could use the LASAR STC so you'll have to talk to your A&P about whether this is a minor alteration or... Surely LASAR has been asked about this before. 

 

My plane had 2 100W lamps until I recently went LED. Now I have a 60 deg flood for taxi and a 8 deg spot for landing. Sweet. 

[BillC]

PTK: I think it's a great idea. Good lighting in all enviroments is always a good thing. I was considering a taxi light where the ram air inlet was. A simple procedure. A little fiberglass work, some wiring and a new circuit breaker switch and your done.

[fantom]

 

Does anyone know if this would be a straight forward and easy minor alteration or would it involve more than that?

 

You don't really think it's easy, minor, or cheap....do you?

 

However, there is an "LED fixture that's legal and a straight forward drop in replacement for the wingtips", IF you mean strobes/position lights. I viewed it at the AOPA Summit last week, and have posted it in two different threads since then.

 

Thread creep and evolution, is a way of life here and all over. You do it and so do I. I get a kick when a question is posed then the poster dictates the bounds and style of the response wanted. "But my question was not to discuss if it's worth it."

 

Just sheading a little "more light" on your question.

[PTK]

Thanks Gary for the enlightenment!

My question was not to discuss if it's worth it or not because this a very subjective matter. It may be worth it to one individual but not so to the next person.

It's worth to me.

Indeed those lights you mention are wingtip nav and strobe bulbs. Look good but they're not landing lights.

I was thinking more in terms of an additional landing light in the cowl. To me this is well worth it, if it's a simple matter, because it's very cheap (low draw) and lots of light!

Lots of cheap light can't hurt right?!

[fantom]

 

Lots of light can't hurt right?!

 

At night, when it's coming toward you, it sure can.

 

Or:

[PTK]

This would hurt a little more...

 

[NotarPilot]

This is an excellent question. I think I inquired about this to a Mooney shop in Texas last year and If I remember correctly, I was told there's no STC for it and therefore it couldn't be done. Can someone enlighten me if this is correct?

I for one definitely think it's worth it. In fact, I really want to put the wing mounted lights on the leading edge like the later model Js. I called Coy Jacob at Mooney Mart about it and he told me to email him with what I wanted. I emailed him, no response, emailed again, no response. I guess he doesn't really want my business. I definitely agree, more light is better.

[PTK]

I really believe this can be done and would be beneficial. The concern is that it would draw too many amps. I agree it would and I wouldn't want that either. If conventional bulbs are used!

I plan on doing this utilizing led bulbs. Both have a fraction of the draw of one conventional bulb. I believe if presented in this "light" a compelling argument can be made to "enlighten" the non-believers and have it be a minor alteration.

[Bob_Belville]

I really believe this can be done and would be beneficial. The concern is that it would draw too many amps. I agree it would and I wouldn't want that either. If conventional bulbs are used!

I plan on doing this utilizing led bulbs. Both have a fraction of the draw of one conventional bulb. I believe if presented in this "light" a compelling argument can be made to "enlighten" the non-believers and have it be a minor alteration.

My two LED lights draw 3 A @ 12V.

[fantom]

My two LED lights draw 3 A @ 12V.

My four wing mounted 24v LEDs draw the same

[Bob_Belville]

My four wing mounted 24v LEDs draw the same

How surprising! 

[flyingvee201]

Logically speaking,  I would think you could use salvaged or NOS (if you could find it) leading edge light assemblies from the J models and create an STC for it to accomodate the other models? (Hint hint Mooney Mart??)  Most of our wings are similar and you would think it would work. I know there is something similar for Pipers. This is their website - http://www.woodstockair.com/  I wonder if they would be interested in designing lights for Mooneys?  hmmm....

 

 

This is an excellent question. I think I inquired about this to a Mooney shop in Texas last year and If I remember correctly, I was told there's no STC for it and therefore it couldn't be done. Can someone enlighten me if this is correct?

I for one definitely think it's worth it. In fact, I really want to put the wing mounted lights on the leading edge like the later model Js. I called Coy Jacob at Mooney Mart about it and he told me to email him with what I wanted. I emailed him, no response, emailed again, no response. I guess he doesn't really want my business. I definitely agree, more light is better.

[NotarPilot]

Mooney Mart "offers" a kit for wing mounted lights. I put offers in quotation because I haven't heard back from them to get information on cost and availability. Perhaps I'll be able to buy direct from the factory soon.

[fantom]

Mooney Mart "offers" a kit for wing mounted lights.

"There be dragons there." Good luck!

[SumoAir]

While I fly a Piper, I had to chime in on this discussion. I have the exact same question with a different twist. My Cherokee 6-260 has a single combination landing/taxing light in the center of the lower cowling. Even though I have upgraded to a new LED PAR36 lamp with whighter and brighter light, more even distribution and triple the lumens, it is simply not enough considering 20% of my flying is at night.

For me, to gain more light, STC options include wingtip light upgrades for $900 plus shipping and installation ($1000 more for cutting and riviting and fishing wires through impossible cavities), so I spent time just looking for other options. I found a flush mount 500 lumen LED light (totally enclosed, flat backed heat sink) and imagined two of these mounted under the lower cowling to SUPPLEMENT my current landing light. There are obvious benefits: (1) Chance of three lights failing highly unlikely, (2) double current lighting, (3) lens options include narrow beams and wide for the same lights, allowing for landing or taxi configuration or both utilizing two lamps, (4) small size fits about anywhere, (5) weight is minimal, (6) lamps operate in 10-32VDC range, (7) my mount can be shimmed and aimed in ANY direction, including downward by 15 degrees to allow for illuminating what you are landing on while your nose is up on short final...

Here's the twist: I will not modify the aircraft in any way, no holes, no fiberglass work, no mess. My concept is this: Using a custom aluminum plate that I am fabricating at a local metal shop, I will bolt two of these low profile LED lights to the fixed upper portion (mounted to engine mount) of my landing gear strut (just under lower cowling.) Using off the shelf stainless steel clamps and approved fasteners, this fixture will be smaller and narrower than the landing lights on any nose gears that contain standard lamps. Total weight will less than 2 pounds and wiring will simply run up into lower cowling and splice into existing power connector for landing light circuit (3 lamps in parallel). Total current draw for all three LED lights combined will be less than the 50W GE H7604 I used to use, which is half of the wattage allowed for the circuit (100W). I figure tripling the amount of light, tripling the number of lamps and adding to safety of the aircraft operation (not to mention seeing the numbers and the ramp at night) is an overall win, considering it will take me all of 30 minutes to install this once my prototype plate is fabricated this week.

All the research I have done is that my concept would be considered minor by any stretch since no modification of the airframe is involved. The fixture is under the aircraft and just aft of the propeller wash, so I believe aerodynamics are minute, if any. Considering it will be a minor alteration, I expect after flight testing that a log book entry will be all that is required. If I ever cross paths with anyone that disagrees, it can be removed in 5 minutes by loosening four 3/8-16 nylon locknuts and disconnecting a single molex connector (power).

Any thoughts?

[PTK]

Sounds good to me. Only potential problem I see is the splicing into existing power connector may be viewed as major alteration.

Just thinking outloud.

[Marauder]

Peter -- have you flown behind an LED lamp yet? I changed out my standard bulb to a Whelen LED at the annual. You will be surprised how much light this bulb tosses out. You may find that two are overkill. I would replace your current bulb to LED if you haven't done so already and see if one will suffice.

[Steve Dawson]

Is there anyone that has a STC for mounting a light on one of the landing gear?

[Oscar Avalle]

I don't think there is any worth it advantage adding another light in the cowling. However there maybe for some adding landing wing tip lights. This would help on taxiways cluttered with cars, planes, trees, lightpoles, etc. This could be on the form of small laser beams LEDs that illuminate obstacles ahead. Nothing more disgusting than finding out that your hangar taxiway is cluttered with improperly parked cars or even boats.

 

José 

I agree and there was another conversation some time ago about this addition. It really looks great and is extremely useful. 

[Oscar Avalle]

While I fly a Piper, I had to chime in on this discussion. I have the exact same question with a different twist. My Cherokee 6-260 has a single combination landing/taxing light in the center of the lower cowling. Even though I have upgraded to a new LED PAR36 lamp with whighter and brighter light, more even distribution and triple the lumens, it is simply not enough considering 20% of my flying is at night.

For me, to gain more light, STC options include wingtip light upgrades for $900 plus shipping and installation ($1000 more for cutting and riviting and fishing wires through impossible cavities), so I spent time just looking for other options. I found a flush mount 500 lumen LED light (totally enclosed, flat backed heat sink) and imagined two of these mounted under the lower cowling to SUPPLEMENT my current landing light. There are obvious benefits: (1) Chance of three lights failing highly unlikely, (2) double current lighting, (3) lens options include narrow beams and wide for the same lights, allowing for landing or taxi configuration or both utilizing two lamps, (4) small size fits about anywhere, (5) weight is minimal, (6) lamps operate in 10-32VDC range, (7) my mount can be shimmed and aimed in ANY direction, including downward by 15 degrees to allow for illuminating what you are landing on while your nose is up on short final...

Here's the twist: I will not modify the aircraft in any way, no holes, no fiberglass work, no mess. My concept is this: Using a custom aluminum plate that I am fabricating at a local metal shop, I will bolt two of these low profile LED lights to the fixed upper portion (mounted to engine mount) of my landing gear strut (just under lower cowling.) Using off the shelf stainless steel clamps and approved fasteners, this fixture will be smaller and narrower than the landing lights on any nose gears that contain standard lamps. Total weight will less than 2 pounds and wiring will simply run up into lower cowling and splice into existing power connector for landing light circuit (3 lamps in parallel). Total current draw for all three LED lights combined will be less than the 50W GE H7604 I used to use, which is half of the wattage allowed for the circuit (100W). I figure tripling the amount of light, tripling the number of lamps and adding to safety of the aircraft operation (not to mention seeing the numbers and the ramp at night) is an overall win, considering it will take me all of 30 minutes to install this once my prototype plate is fabricated this week.

All the research I have done is that my concept would be considered minor by any stretch since no modification of the airframe is involved. The fixture is under the aircraft and just aft of the propeller wash, so I believe aerodynamics are minute, if any. Considering it will be a minor alteration, I expect after flight testing that a log book entry will be all that is required. If I ever cross paths with anyone that disagrees, it can be removed in 5 minutes by loosening four 3/8-16 nylon locknuts and disconnecting a single molex connector (power).

Any thoughts?

 

Sounds really interesting... any pictures.