piperpainter Posted September 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Ps if ya'll want some more pictures or anything just let me know and i'll go shoot some! Always happy to help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 Hangar is cooled down so I thought I would start the mod. I have 64 E, and access was rather easy. After reading another post on folding seats and the expense of the STC I started looking into a little more. I reallized that the seat back is also the luggage compartment forward bulkhead. Because my plane does not have luggage tie downs, it means this must meet crash requirements. The forward load in a passenger area is 9Gs. Given that the weight capacity is 120 lbs, it means the 9G load is 1080 lbs on the seat back. In simple math (I'm not a structural engineer), that is 270 per attachment point. Most pins are not rated in tension. I did find some that are, but because this goes through the aluminum seat back, I'm not sure it is quite enough. I ended up with a hybrid, using the existing bolts with better access. Not quite quick release, but I have to convince myself that pins would meet the load (I would like to use quick release, with push button and balls on the end, vs cotter pin). Maybe I'm being paranoid? My IA side says this might be more than a simple mod if the crash load is considered. Has anybody had similar input from their IA/Mechanic? Don't get me wrong, I like the mod. and the instructions were great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 "Because my plane does not have luggage tie downs" Takair, 65 M20Cs have tie downs, are you sure that 64 M20Es do not? Adding tie downs would be a better solution... than relying on the seat back to evenly adsorb a 9g impact of a 120 lb object and protect the occupants in front. Calculating 270 Lbs. per attachment point is assuming even distribution with the object already pressed against the seat back prior to impact. Since your plane was delivered with seatbelts with no shoulder harnesses, I don't think the seat back was designed with that much thought and matching testing to prove it's value as impact protection. Being safety conscious is not paranoia, but applying today's safety standards to 40+ year old planes is not a perfect fit either... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Gravel Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 carusoam: My 65 E does not have tie downs, so if you know of a 65 model that does, I would appreciate some photos. That is a relatively easily rectified issue. So long as the hardware meets spec, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Ned, I'll see what I can come up with. When I first got the 65C, the straps were decayed. I thought they came with the plane. As you may know, My C is gone, I have the R now. -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron McBride Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 On my 69F, I found the tie down straps under the baggage carpet. They were very ugly. I went to the Home Depot PMA store and bought 2 nice straps for my baggage compartment. It looks much better. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piperpainter Posted November 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 I have at least 4-6 places for bolts to hold down straps in the cargo area. They are all under the seat. Both on the back side and below the seat back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Gravel Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Bryan: I pulled my carpet and there are about eight places where an appropriate bolt could be used to replace one there and affix the D ring for straps. Clarence has done this before so it is not really a big deal, but the drawings sort of call for the same type of ring as the old tie-down eyes under the wings and I do not want that on the floor of my baggage compartment. I want the type that everyone else has, nice and flat to the floor and connected to good webbing straps for cargo. Just got to do it right, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piperpainter Posted November 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 I don't see why you have to put the ring like under the wing? I have normal bolts that go there. Thats how it was when I got the plane and it looks fine and I have a strap connected to it, looks good like anybody elses would! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Gravel Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 Quote: piperpainter I don't see why you have to put the ring like under the wing? I have normal bolts that go there. Thats how it was when I got the plane and it looks fine and I have a strap connected to it, looks good like anybody elses would! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piperpainter Posted November 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 I would but I am kinda on the otherside of the world so I can't for a while. Sorry! When I get back I can though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N231SM Posted February 16, 2018 Report Share Posted February 16, 2018 Hello, Has anyone done the folding rear seat mod as Piperpainter proposed about 8 yrs ago? tks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennett Posted February 16, 2018 Report Share Posted February 16, 2018 Hello, Has anyone done the folding rear seat mod as Piperpainter proposed about 8 yrs ago? tks Many years ago LASAR made up articulating hinges that let my rear seat fold flat to match the baggage compartment floor for my K model. Worked perfectly. I would take out the seats, fold the seatback down (with matching carpet to the baggage compartment)and form a long flat floor for my survival gear, life raft, etc. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Starke Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 2 hours ago, N231SM said: Hello, Has anyone done the folding rear seat mod as Piperpainter proposed about 8 yrs ago? tks I have a set of folding split rears if you're interested. You would need the mounting hardware. These are out of a late "F". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milotron Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Bennett said: Many years ago LASAR made up articulating hinges that let my rear seat fold flat to match the baggage compartment floor for my K model. Worked perfectly. I would take out the seats, fold the seatback down (with matching carpet to the baggage compartment)and form a long flat floor for my survival gear, life raft, etc. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I would be interested in these. Do they still exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Tony Starke said: I have a set of folding split rears if you're interested. You would need the mounting hardware. These are out of a late "F". My 1970 C has these from the factory. They're great! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennett Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 I would be interested in these. Do they still exist? I suggest you contact LASAR, or Paul Lowen (he now has his own Parts company). At this point I don’t know if it was done via a 337 form, or STC, or even if something as simple as an articulated hinge in an upholstery situation required paperwork. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milotron Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 Just now, Bennett said: I suggest you contact LASAR, or Paul Lowen (he now has his own Parts company). At this point I don’t know if it was done via a 337 form, or STC, or even if something as simple as an articulated hinge in an upholstery situation required paperwork. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I will do so. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJMac Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 I will do so. Thanks, Please share your findings. I’d like to do the same Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milotron Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 I dropped them a line and will post my findings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 On 2/17/2018 at 10:37 PM, milotron said: I dropped them a line and will post my findings. I'm interested in this as well, may I ask if you found out if this conversion kit still exists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milotron Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 Hi, they didn't reply back to me. Drop them a line and ask, maybe better luck for you. It was at the time of their ownership transition and it may have fallen through the cracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 I called LASAR today, but they are not making the kit anymore. They gave me the number of Paul, the previouse owner, but he seems to be gone until next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moodychief Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 I did the mod when I first saw it many years ago. Came in handy a couple of months ago when my wife wanted to but two Christmas trees at Menards in Branson. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 Because the trees were inverted. If you use google to search there is a well documented thread on how to convert via some bolts and pins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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