wetwingologists

[721lp]

Has anyone had any experience with wetwingologists in Ft. Lauderdale?

[N207LS]

Going in this weekend to WW at KFXE for strip and reseal.  I have done hours of research on this subject and have personally gone to inspect several jobs done by WW.  I will post all of my expereinces as they begin the work.  They are also adding the wing mounted fuel guages to my plane.

[KSMooniac]

Aaron, what is WW currently bidding/estimating for the full job (not including the wing gauges)?

[N207LS]

I believe it was $2850 per wing (a MAPA Member discounted price).  I honestly do not remember, but I will update this tomorrow with the actual amount after I drop the plane off.  There are some possible additional costs for having to replace any hardware (most likely can count on adding this in).  Work is guaranteed for 7 years by WW.  This is the longest guarantee that I could find on a strip/reseal from any shop in the country.  Personally, I have most likely spent 30+ hours in researching this process.  The three big shops (WW, Wilmar, and Midwest M20) that do this all have different processes and guarantees.  I have spoken with several former customers both live and via email of all of the shops.  I have gone to inspect the work on four local Mooneys and have seen both good and bad jobs.   I am planning on overseeing this work by making several unanounced visits to the shop while my plane is being worked on.  I have communicated this with Edison at WW and he has commented that I may be one of his most "informed customers" and he told me that I can come to see the work in process whenever I wish.  He has said that he understands that my airplane is "part of my family."    He has also made several assurances that the job will be done right. 

Stay tuned for my reseal experiences.  I will post photos of the job and my experiences on this thread.

[GeorgePerry]

Aaron

It sounds like you've really done your homework.  7 years is a GREAT warranty...I'm curious though, why not consider O & N bladders instead of a re-seal?  I'd like to hear your thoughts... 

 

[Greg_D]

Quote: GeorgePerry

Aaron

It sounds like you've really done your homework.  7 years is a GREAT warranty...I'm curious though, why not consider O & N bladders instead of a re-seal?  I'd like to hear your thoughts... 

 

[GeorgePerry]

Greg...when did your name change to Aaron?  I think we are all familiar with your considerable opinion from previous posts. 

[The-sky-captain]

My logbooks show WW did a reseal on 1PX five years ago and they are still in great shape.

[N207LS]

Wow, I guess this post has really gotten some legs...  In my opinion, this is the eternal Mooniac question...  Bladders or Reseal.  I think that there are as many opinions here as there are Mooney owners. 

For me, the questions was rather simple to answer.  In the course of research and getting lots of opinions (sometimes too many) the bladders just didn't feel right.  First and simplest, if Mooney engineers wanted the plane to have bladders,  they would have at some point in the course of the company, just installed them on new Mooneys.  Our Air Force and Navy fighters have wet wings too.  (using the logic that people smarter than me seem to think that wet wings are not a bad idea).  Second, the idea of an AD after spending $6,000+ to supposedly fix a problem really bothered me.  (What's next?).  Third, the weight issue.  My plane has a useful load of about 891 lbs.  I am a fairly big guy (230 lbs) and myself, my wife, my dog (by the way he is a great flyer, but he is also a 75 lb black lab), full fuel, luggage, a few of quarts of oil, an airplane cover, aluminum chocks, the owners manual, my flight bag, luggage, etc, etc, and we are at gross or maybe slightly over.  I really was not interested in carrying more fuel (larger bladders) or adding weight.  So, all in all, for me a strip/reseal was the way to go.

I hope this information helps!

 

[Greg_D]

Quote: GeorgePerry

Greg...when did your name change to Aaron?  I think we are all familiar with your considerable opinion from previous posts. 

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: N207LS

Our Air Force and Navy fighters have wet wings too.  (using the logic that people smarter than me seem to think that wet wings are not a bad idea).  Second, the idea of an AD after spending $6,000+ to supposedly fix a problem really bothered me.  (What's next?).  Third, the weight issue. 

I hope this information helps!

[Piloto]

The guys at WW really do good work. I talked to 5 previous customers that had work done there on the las 5 years and they were very happy with the tanks. BTW none of the civil planes in current production use bladders anymore. Some of the problems experienced with bladders are: added weight, less fuel capacity and wing spar corrosion due to moisture entrapment. Maintenance logistics is a nightmare if you have different aircraft type in the fleet. You have to stock different bladders for left and right wing for each type. With integral tanks one can of sealant will fix all the wet wings in the fleet. No need to stock bladders.

José

  

[randypugh]

Aaron, I have the wing gauges in my airplane but they don't register the same as the electric gauges. Did they discuss this with you when you ordered this option? Maybe I need mine adjusted

[Greg_D]

Quote: randypugh

Aaron, I have the wing gauges in my airplane but they don't register the same as the electric gauges. Did they discuss this with you when you ordered this option? Maybe I need mine adjusted

[N207LS]

I will be happy to post my experiences after they are installed.  My fuel gauges is the plane are mediocore at best.  When I redid my panel last year I decided to go for the EI FP 5L and UBG-16 package (there was a significant rebate to buy both together). My FP5L communicates with my 530 and provides fantastic information on the fuel screen.  I did this as it was not much more expensive that troubleshooting my fuel gauges.  Now that I am going for the reseal, it only seems logical to add the luxuries of wing mounted gauges (which are somewhat visible from the air) and overhauling the fuel sending unit ($166 each from Air Parts in Lock Haven, PA with a 24-48 hour turn around time).  There is no additional labor, as the sending unit has to come out for the reseal (it is in the way) and will be overhaulled while the tank s/r is completed. 

I suspect that the difference in the guages comes from the fact that one is completely mechanical/magnetic (nice and less to break) and the other relies on the electrical system.  The wing gauges are "accurate" on the ground per Mooney AC, but I suspect that they should be somewhat accurate in level flight in the absemce of  turbulance.  For me, the choice to add them was simply as a redundant system that was not too expensive (plus I think that they look cool and really modernize the aircraft).  The gauges were about $750 and ship from the Mooney factory.  Realistically, I would not have added them if I was not doing the strip/reseal.  But, given the fact that the panel is all ready off, and there is very little labor to add them (about 2 hours) it was either add them now, or wait until my next s/r.  You can read from my earlier posts, that I am really convinced that one should not mess with patchwork inside a Mooney tank (including cutting holes in the panel to add a gauge). 

The bottom line here is that this seemed like the perfect time to get this done.  I will post my feedback after it is complete.

[N207LS]

Price was $2850 per tank.  Plus some extras hardware, installing wing gauges should be about $6300 total.

[N207LS]

UPDATE #1 from Wet Wingologists

January 28, 2009

 

My baby has been at WW since Saturday afternoon...  On Sunday, Edison (owner of WW) moved it into his hangar and drained the tanks (I only arrived with 5 gallons between both tanks, so not too much to drain out).  He removed the inspection plates on Tuesday to let the fuel fumes air out...  Today, Edison called me to tell me that I had the original fuel sending units (40 years old), as he had removed them.  I am replacing them while they are out $284 ea from Mooney factory (they can be overhauled by Air Parts of Lock Haven, PA for $166 ea, but is seems to me to be worthwhile to replace with new ones for less than $240 more)...  My gauges are somewhat accurate, but why mess with it when the labor of removing and installing the sending units is all ready being done.   This just seems logical for any vintage Mooney owner.  I am also adding the wing mounted gauges.  Interestingly enough, I ordered the gauges from Don Maxwell and they were supposedly being shipped directly to WW.  When Edison called me today, they weren't there yet.  I called Don Maxwell and left a message for him to find out why my gauges had not arrived in Ft. Lauderdale.  He left me a message to call him back which I did and left him another message.  He did call Edison at WW to tell him that he had sent them to the wrong address.  Edison called me right away to tell me he had spoken with Don and that my gauges were missing...  I spoke with Edison again this evening and he told me that he would do whatever he could to help me.  He said that he told Don Maxwell to search the tracking number and try to get the gauges back.  Why Don sent them to a wrong address is beyond me, as he told me on the phone (when I ordered them) that he had the address for WW on file.   I will try to call Don Maxwell in the morning again...  Based on this fiasco with the wing gauges, I will be ordering my sending units through LASAR (drop shipped from the factory), not Don Maxwell... 

I will post again with my next update in a couple of days. 

[fantom]

Well, Arron it seems that I'm going to pick your gauges up today from 1725 East Commercial Blvd. and delivering them to 1725 West Commercial Blvd. as a favor to Don Maxwell, who is for your information as good and honest a guy as they come. If I ever need a leak repaired, it won't be done at WW, and I live in Ft. Lauderdale and have been active in the Mooney community for 14 years. 

It seems that Edison "doesn't have time" to get them himself, even though a Google website shows that incorrect address. 

Wet Wingologists

1725 E Commercial Blvd
Oakland Park, FL 33334
954-938-9390

Good luck with the installation. All isn't always what it seems.

 

[cparham]

Wetwingologists did my tanks in Feb. 2005, (1965 M20E).  There have been no leaks at all since then.  I felt the service was superior in every way.

Chet Parham

N42CP

[N207LS]

My gauges were delivered to WW yesterday through the assistance of Gary "Fantom" (on this board).  I do geniunely appreciate his assistance as he went to the Doctor's office that they were initally sent to and brought them to WW.  It is very nice that a fellow Mooney owner went out of his way to help out (THANK YOU!).   

For all to reference, Wet Wingologists address is not the one listed online.  Call Edison and he will give you the correct address.  Edison has told me that he has no idea how that address appeared online, as it has never been his address.  He said that he is working on a web page and he hopes to have it up within a month or so...

Don Maxwell called me yesterday, late morning, quite angry about my earlier post.  It was not a pleasant conversation and rather than drag it out on this forum, I will leave it alone.  The bottom line is that he did get someone to pick up the gauges from the wrong address and deliver them to WW.    For that I am appreciative.  Thank you Don... 

[Mooney_Allegro]

Aaron, looking forward to update #2! 

[N207LS]

Sorry for the delay on this update.  I have been really busy at work and have not had time to post this until now...

UPDATE #2 (ALMOST DONE!!!)

I went to WW last week to inspect the progress on my plane.  Edison met me at the hangar and had everything together ready to explain what he had completed.  The tanks had been stripped and and sealed.  The new wing fuel gauges look awesome (see my photos in my gallery).  The new feul sending units have been installed (purchased from LASAR and shipped direct to WW from the Mooney factory).  In addition, Edison replaced both of my fuel sump drains in the wings with brand new ones.  I also had him change out all of the hardware (somewhat pro-active), as I really didn't need to change all of the screws and fasteners, but the cost was minimal to buy new hardware and there is no additional labor charges.  Considering the fact that I hope to never have to deal with the fuel leaks again, I just felt that pro-actively changing out 40 year screws make sense.  I would recommend changing out everything, as I did, if you have a vintage Mooney.  There is no additional labor cost and it just makes sense to either overhaul or replace the sending units (new sending units were $284 ea and overhauls are available from Air Parts of Lock Haven, PA for $166 ea), the new Mooney fuel sumps are about $50 +/-, the screws are $20 +/-, the fasteners are $3.50 ea. 

Edison pressure tested the tanks and all was good on that front.  The final "test" is the actual fuel expansion test done by simply filling the plane all of the way up and then parking it in the sun to allow for expansion.  That is where we are today.  The plane is outside Edison's hangar and is completely full.  I hope to be able to pick it up in the next couple of days (assuming that there are no signs of any leakage from the fuel test). 

I am attaching pictures to my photo gallery of the actual fuel access plates both above and under the wing.  All in all, I have to say that my experience with Wet Wingologists has been excellent.  Edison has answered all of my calls and has afforded me the opportunity to come and check on my plane at MY convenience.  He saved my sending units for me (if anyone wants to overhaul them I will sell them cheap), as well as all of my old parts.  Each time that I have visited his shop there have been different Mooney's there (business must be pretty good) all for complete strip and reseals.  Some have been patch repaired before and others are nearly new airplanes.  I have to think that my aircraft has been one of the "lucky ones" in that it has had three patch repairs prior to its first complete s&r in over 40 years.  Yesterday, I saw a 1999 Eagle in his hangar, as well as a 252 with long range tanks.  The 252 had been through a complete s&r only 2 years ago at a different shop and was now at WW.  I can only say that in comparison, I feel lucky. 

Some other posts have commented on WW.  Here are my thoughts on the whole process.  There are really three choices for complete strip and reseals in our Mooney world (there are several others that do it and I am sure that they may be good as well, but only three shops appear to really specialize in this porcess).  Wilmar, Midwest M20, and Wet Wingologists.  After going through it, I am convinced that all three would have done good work.  They all use three completely different processes.  They all offer competitive warranty's on thier work.  Their prices vary from WW being the cheapest and Midwest m20 being the highest (though their process is an STC'd modification to your plane).  I have not visited the other two shops, but spoke with them at length and felt like I got a good idea of what they would be like.  I personally spoke with or exchanged emails with customers of all three shops and all had good references.  I saw work that had been done by two of the shops (Wilmar and WW) and can honestly say that I saw both dry planes and ones that had begun to leak again.  For me a few things really guided my decision (in order of importance to me)...  First, location, I live in Florida and given the fact that I saw tanks that had begun leaking again, a flight to Fort Lauderdale is only 1 hour away for repairs, where as the others were a lot further.  Second, warranty, WW offered a 7 year no leak warrany.  Seven years is a long time (like cat or dog years) in Mooney fuel tank time...  Third, personalities...  I have to say that I really liked Edison when I met him.  I liked the fact that he personally does his work and that he is not part of a bigger entity.  I like the fact that I am dealing with the owner of the business and this is also why I use an independant A&P/IA to maintain my airplane, instead of a larger shop.  When I need something, personally, I like knowing that the person who answers the phone is the decision maker.  I deliberatly called him several times (from different phone numbers) before I brought him my plane, just to make sure that he would answer his phone (if something went wrong aftewards).  Fourth and finally, cost...  For the same price as going to Wilmar for just a strip and reseal, I was able to add the wing fuel gauges to my plane (something I really wanted). 

A few final thoughts about Wet Wingologists and whether it may be the right choice...  I will say that his shop is not glamerous (big understatement), as it is a small hangar (holds 2 Mooney's) and his office is not fancy.  There is no fancy waiting room and no real lounge area (Banyan has all that and it is only a five minute walk from his hangar).  He does not have any signs up, nor does he have a "Ritz Carltonesque" envorinment.  What he does have is a small working business that would remind you of your average independant auto shop.  This is not too much different from my A&P's shop and therefore did not bother me in the least.  If you are used to your shop being spotless and you regularly buy full service fuel from places like Million Air then you should prepare yourself.  If you are like me and fly 20 miles for self service fuel to save $2.00 per gallon and you are willing to change your own oil and filter, then you will most likely feel very comfortable.  Wet Wingologists does make you pay with a cashiers check or certified funds (Edison told me that this is due to him getting stiffed on a big job and paid by a bad check, so now that is his policy).  A inconvenience, yes, but I can understand why.  He was up front and told me about this from day one though and it is clearly written in the work agreement.  Time will tell if I made the right decision, but so far I have to say that I am impressed with Edison's work and knowlege of Mooney fuel tank repairs.  I have stressed that importance of my plane to Edison and he has given me every personal assurance that my plane will not leak and it is fixed!  I hope that I never have to use the warranty, but again 7 years is a long time...   

And yes, I would do business with Wet Wingologists again...

Aaron

[airfoill]

Just dropped off my plane yesterday to do a complete reseal..............Saw Aaron's plane there already done.    Mine is next!

[Mooney_Allegro]

Good luck Herb!  We will all look forward to your update #1!

 

[N207LS]

Just wanted to add some follow up to my expereince.  On Sunday, last week, I went out to the airport and during my pre-flight, saw a damp blue spot (about 3mm in diameter) of fuel below the rivet adjacent to the fuel drain.  During my reseal, I put new fuel sumps in, so I was confident that this was not from the sump.  I called Edison at WW when I got back that evening to tell him what I saw, and that I had a leak.  On Tuesday morning, I flew over to Wet Wingologists at KFXE and Edison diagnosed and has appeared to have fixed the problem.  There was a leak coming from the rivet, which he removed, put some new PRC in the space, and then re-riveted.  I left KSPG at 7:30 am and returned back before noon with the plane repaired.  So far, all appears dry with no sign of any new leak.  All was taken care of under warranty.  Thanks Edison for your prompt attention to my issue.

Aaron