GTN Database Update

[flyboy0681]

Like in the old days of Delco INS

 

 

Ah, the good 'ol Carousel 4.

[Piloto]

Ah, the good 'ol Carousel 4.

Yeah, only 10 waypoints capacity, all of them manually programmed.

What I can not understand is pilots complaining about paying for XM\WX subscription and not about more expensive dabase subscriptions. At least wx changes daily but when have you seen an airport change location after 28 days.

José

[flyboy0681]

 At least wx changes daily but when have you seen an airport change location after 28 days.

 

 

Actually, just recently Vero Beach VOR was officially changed to Treasure and the identifier went from VRB to TRV, so it does happen.

[Marauder]

Ah, the good 'ol Carousel 4.Yeah, only 10 waypoints capacity, all of them manually programmed.What I can not understand is pilots complaining about paying for XMWX subscription and not about more expensive dabase subscriptions. At least wx changes daily but when have you seen an airport change location after 28 days.José

Oh, we're complaining. No one is listening though! I think most of us think of the database subscriptions more of a requirement than we do of weather subscriptions. And it doesn't help that the weather is offered free when you have a WiFi connection. When I look back at the paper days, I spent way too much of my time opening and closing 7 ring binders. So, the "convenience" of electronic downloading has some monetary value. Just NOT this much monetary value!

[Piloto]

Oh, we're complaining. No one is listening though! I think most of us think of the database subscriptions more of a requirement than we do of weather subscriptions. And it doesn't help that the weather is offered free when you have a WiFi connection. When I look back at the paper days, I spent way too much of my time opening and closing 7 ring binders. So, the "convenience" of electronic downloading has some monetary value. Just NOT this much monetary value!

You have a good point. I just dropped my XM\WX subscription because I can get WX (MyRadar app, Satellite, Winds)on my Samsung S3 in more detail and quicker than on the Aera 560 and while driving to the airport. What surprised me is that I can get at altitude half the time and the ability to text messages. Must be the new 4G LTE cell phone format.

As for database why should I care about the data of 5,000 airports when I only fly to five of them and mostly in VMC. I remeber seeing pilots carrying bulky brief cases with Jeppessen binders just to make a flight to Key West on a C150. BTW You can get for free all the current Approaches SIDS and STARs at Airnav website. I dont even need to print them because the Samsung S3 display is big enough to see them.

José

[Marauder]

Oh, we're complaining. No one is listening though! I think most of us think of the database subscriptions more of a requirement than we do of weather subscriptions. And it doesn't help that the weather is offered free when you have a WiFi connection. When I look back at the paper days, I spent way too much of my time opening and closing 7 ring binders. So, the "convenience" of electronic downloading has some monetary value. Just NOT this much monetary value!You have a good point. I just dropped my XMWX subscription because I can get WX (MyRadar app, Satellite, Winds)on my Samsung S3 in more detail and quicker than on the Aera 560 and while driving to the airport. What surprised me is that I can get at altitude half the time and the ability to text messages. Must be the new 4G LTE cell phone format.As for database why should I care about the data of 5,000 airports when I only fly to five of them and mostly in VMC. I remeber seeing pilots carrying bulky brief cases with Jeppessen binders just to make a flight to Key West on a C150. BTW You can get for free all the current Approaches SIDS and STARs at Airnav website. I dont even need to print them because the Samsung S3 display is big enough to see them.José

I think those of us who flew the system a lot and went to new destinations frequently got trained early to be prepared. It was much easier back then to update all of the plates then sort out which ones I thought I was going to need. Especially when the weather was iffy and there was a chance I was going to fly some distance to find an acceptable alternate. Granted often there were no changes. But if you get caught one time with the incorrect info, you learn not to do it again. That said, I have seen those guys loading up their Jepps for a hamburger run on a CAVU day. I also have been in the air on an IFR plan in IMC to hear a pilot say he didn't have the approach plates for the airport he filed for! What I really like is all the new technologies that are coming forward to make keeping this information current easier. To have the current approach plates available on my Nexus and also on the Aspen, both georeferenced, is really cool.

[wishboneash]

I didn't see you post. So you did get two cards with your GTN 650? I got two as well but one is dated 2010 and the other 2011. I'm woindering if my installer gave me a bad one... Why else would I have gotten one dated from 2010?

Yes, I got two cards. The second one was a dud. Seems like it was write protected and moving the write protect tab on the card didn't help. I haven't tried the replacement card yet, been too busy. Have to figure out what subscription package I need. I wish it were possible to get one reasonably priced subscription for the GTN650 and the 696. That would be nice!

[Bob_Belville]

 I wish it were possible to get one reasonably priced subscription for the GTN650 and the 696. That would be nice!

 

 

I talked to Jepp and Garmin about that exact choice, except I have 750 & 696, no joy. So... it's $1500/yr for Garmin. $1000 for 750 plus $500 for 696. You can save a couple hundred to forgo plates on one of the radios but having the approach plate on the 696 is great while flying the approach and a backup is also nice. 

[Marauder]

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I will try anything if it will lower my subscription costs!

[Piloto]

eHarmony promotional code is tremendously made use of for on the internet special discounts to the courting web page. Occasionally it is possible to get sex or simply a blow position from men and women you meet up with.

eHarmony promotional codes

Can I get free in-flight weather?

[Bennett]

I totally agree that the folks at Jeppesen simply don't know what the various "packages" contain. I spent a good deal of time at the Jeppesen both at Oshkosh, talking to salespersons and "engineers", and I heard different opinions, and different prices from various people. What a shame that neither Jeppesen or Garmin seemingly has a clue as to what we pilots actually want.  If I accepted all of the Jeppesen "programs" and "packages", the cost could easily approach $2000 a year, and I'm still not sure that I would have it all. Your $1,400 figure almost sounds "reasonable" compared to what I was told last week when I changed from the 430W to the 650.  

 

Nav data on a 28 day cycle makes sense for IFR operations, and while more and more I fly simply for the pleasure of it, and more locally, I do make several long distance trips a year, and it is good to know that the navigation and plates are up to date. One less "gottcha" potential. I also agree that terrain, but not obstacles, change slowly, if at all, and less frequent updates are acceptable.  I do think that Safe Taxi updates also make some sense, as I seem to find closed runways and closed taxiways from time to time, and while it is not difficult to adjust to, there has been a rash of runway number changes  (29 to 30, and the like).  But once again, anything that eliminates or minimizes potential confusion is worthwhile.  We all know that aviation is expensive, and I expect to pay for services, but I sure would like to know I am getting my money's worth, and that I am actually receiving what has been represented.  On a good note, I noticed that my Nav data updates ran much faster on this last cycle - so much so that I wondered if I received all the data, but apparently I did.  I dislike removing the cards to take them home, or to my office, to download the updates. In contrast to some, I only have one card per unit (750, 650).  I tried putting an AT&T "hot spot" in my hangar to let an old laptop access the internet, but the combination has been slow, and unreliable, to a good extent because of the all the metal hangars.  Years ago I had hard wired internet at another hangar, but that option is no longer available at my present location. Fortunately, San Carlos Airport is only around 20 minutes from my home (and about the same from my office). 

[wishboneash]

I talked to Jepp and Garmin about that exact choice, except I have 750 & 696, no joy. So... it's $1500/yr for Garmin. $1000 for 750 plus $500 for 696. You can save a couple hundred to forgo plates on one of the radios but having the approach plate on the 696 is great while flying the approach and a backup is also nice. 

 

Thanks for that info. I will probably not update the 696. I plan to use that for WX and terrain. I have a lifetime subscription for Anywheremap wjhich gives me geo-referenced plates and am thinking of also getting Garmin Pilot which has WX (Anywheremap doesn't and it is not being updated or supported as frequently any more). I like the G Pilot interface for the most part and there is no separate app to buy for Android/iOS devices.

[flyboy0681]

Consumer's usually talk (and walk) with their wallet but I don't see any way to pressure these thugs into lowering their subscription rates since we are a captive audience. Since these units are proprietary in nature, it's not as if Seattle Avionics is going to jump into the fray and start offering updates for the GTN series, or 430/530 for that matter. The only way this would happen is if the Feds ordered Garmin to open up their architecture (a 'la the Browser wars of the 90's) in order to avoid an anti-trust suit, and that's not likely to happen in my lifetime.

 

They got us by the cojones folks.

[Bob_Belville]

 I dislike removing the cards to take them home, or to my office, to download the updates. In contrast to some, I only have one card per unit (750, 650).  I tried putting an AT&T "hot spot" in my hangar to let an old laptop access the internet, but the combination has been slow, and unreliable, to a good extent because of the all the metal hangars.  Years ago I had hard wired internet at another hangar, but that option is no longer available at my present location. Fortunately, San Carlos Airport is only around 20 minutes from my home (and about the same from my office). 

I wonder if anyone uses a smart phone internet link to download? I have a simple adapter that I use to plug the SD card into a USB port and i suppose a similar adapter exists to plug into an android phone...

[wishboneash]

I wonder if anyone uses a smart phone internet link to download? I have a simple adapter that I use to plug the SD card into a USB port and i suppose a similar adapter exists to plug into an android phone...

 

I had a generic card reader which worked with all kinds of flash memory. It wouldn't work with the Garmin SDs. Talk about proprietary! The Garmin SD somehow worked with another card reader which is not portable. So I am forced to do the updates at home. 

[Mcstealth]

Thanks for that info. I will probably not update the 696. I plan to use that for WX and terrain. I have a lifetime subscription for Anywheremap wjhich gives me geo-referenced plates and am thinking of also getting Garmin Pilot which has WX (Anywheremap doesn't and it is not being updated or supported as frequently any more). I like the G Pilot interface for the most part and there is no separate app to buy for Android/iOS devices.

 

Which tablet do you utilize?

 

DF

[Marauder]

Well, I'm not sure I'm more bummed out or pissed off. Went to the airport and tried the download of the databases with a fresh download on the SD. No joy. Same problem.... Oscar -- you hear anything from the Beech boys?

[larryb]

Well, I'm not sure I'm more bummed out or pissed off. Went to the airport and tried the download of the databases with a fresh download on the SD. No joy. Same problem.... Oscar -- you hear anything from the Beech boys?

 

A few questions:

 

1) What type of computer did you use to update the SD card? What operating system? I don't want to spread rumors, but I sort of remember hearing that there was trouble updating from a Mac. In any case, you could try another computer.

 

2)  Have you ever had a successful update?

 

3)  Have you tried the other SD card that came with the unit? Or a generic card?

 

     I know that we are supposed to use the Garmin card to "maintain the STC." However, just as a test, I tried a generic Sandisk SD card and did a database update without difficulty in my GTN650. So I do know it works, and there is nothing terribly special about the Garmin SD card. For my normal updates I alternate with the 2 Garmin cards that came with my unit. I use a Lenovo laptop with an integrated SD card reader.

 

     If it were me, I'd start changing things. Use a different computer, use a different card, etc.

 

Larry

[Bennett]

I didn't know you could use a generic SD card for the GTN series. Was this for the Garmin database, or Jeppesen's nav data? I use a generic SD card for the Aera 796. Relative to the multiple Jepp manuals many of us carried when flying across the country: Many times I had to deviate some appreciable distances to avoid thunderstorms, and I really wanted the plates just in case I decided to land and avoid the whole mess for a day or so. Now, it is wonderful to have all these plates available in several different devices, and no more hours of filing (and misfiling) plates. My current setup is to use the GTN 750 coupled to the autopilot via a SAM Icarus GPSS device, the GTN 650 is set up for VORs along my route of flight (GPS could go out someday), and the 796 mainly for XM weather, The 796 cross fills from the 750, and so I use a different scale for looking ahead. The GDL 88 provides TIS-B traffic on the GTN 750 as an overlay, or on a dedicated page. Finally I've been playing with an iPad Mini in a yoke mount to display the aircraft on a sectional. No, I don't just watch all this stuff constantly, but it is great to have some redundancy, and to be able to cross check data along the flight. Sometimes a sectional is more valuable than anything else, and as much as I dislike the Mini, it still is a useful (but hardly optimum) device.

[flyboy0681]

...but it is great to have some redundancy, and to be able to cross check data along the flight.

 

Bennett, there's redundancy and then there's redundancy. 747's typically have only two Inertial Reference Systems.

 

For what it's worth, I use a store bought, 4gig SD Card to load updates to my 750.

[larryb]

I didn't know you could use a generic SD card for the GTN series. Was this for the Garmin database, or Jeppesen's nav data?

 

I used the generic card for the Garmin data. I have not used Jepp data at all in my system.

 

Larry

[Marauder]

Well, I'm not sure I'm more bummed out or pissed off. Went to the airport and tried the download of the databases with a fresh download on the SD. No joy. Same problem.... Oscar -- you hear anything from the Beech boys? A few questions: 1) What type of computer did you use to update the SD card? What operating system? I don't want to spread rumors, but I sort of remember hearing that there was trouble updating from a Mac. In any case, you could try another computer. 2) Have you ever had a successful update? 3) Have you tried the other SD card that came with the unit? Or a generic card? I know that we are supposed to use the Garmin card to "maintain the STC." However, just as a test, I tried a generic Sandisk SD card and did a database update without difficulty in my GTN650. So I do know it works, and there is nothing terribly special about the Garmin SD card. For my normal updates I alternate with the 2 Garmin cards that came with my unit. I use a Lenovo laptop with an integrated SD card reader. If it were me, I'd start changing things. Use a different computer, use a different card, etc. Larry

Hi Larry, This may indeed be a problem with the PC platform. The Jepp Nav data was loaded on the SD from jsum using a clean boot into Windows on my Mac. Jepp's jsum doesn't work on a Mac. Garmin's flygarmin site did have a problem with Mac a few months back but they indicated they fixed it. Perhaps not. I did load the Garmin data from flygarmin while it was in Mac mode. I will try loading the updates from a Windows booted machine and see what I get. I did update the first Jepp Nav cycle at the beginning of January but have not done anything with the rest of the databases until now. As for the SDs, I have now tried it using both cards that I got with the unit. I have not tried a generic card, but I will. Thanks for the suggestions. Never crossed my mind to look at the PCs, but certainly makes sense.

[Marauder]

I didn't know you could use a generic SD card for the GTN series. Was this for the Garmin database, or Jeppesen's nav data? I use a generic SD card for the Aera 796. Relative to the multiple Jepp manuals many of us carried when flying across the country: Many times I had to deviate some appreciable distances to avoid thunderstorms, and I really wanted the plates just in case I decided to land and avoid the whole mess for a day or so. Now, it is wonderful to have all these plates available in several different devices, and no more hours of filing (and misfiling) plates. My current setup is to use the GTN 750 coupled to the autopilot via a SAM Icarus GPSS device, the GTN 650 is set up for VORs along my route of flight (GPS could go out someday), and the 796 mainly for XM weather, The 796 cross fills from the 750, and so I use a different scale for looking ahead. The GDL 88 provides TIS-B traffic on the GTN 750 as an overlay, or on a dedicated page. Finally I've been playing with an iPad Mini in a yoke mount to display the aircraft on a sectional. No, I don't just watch all this stuff constantly, but it is great to have some redundancy, and to be able to cross check data along the flight. Sometimes a sectional is more valuable than anything else, and as much as I dislike the Mini, it still is a useful (but hardly optimum) device.

It sounds like we were weaned on the IFR system about the same time. I flew for years with Jepp paper after switching over from NOAA books. I had a WAC chart always available as backup. I flew this way until GPS came along and I used a portable for situational awareness. I finally made the dive into panel mounted GPS and I doubt I will ever look back. I know there are a lot of stick & rudder, truest types who say flying the magenta line is not real flying. The heck with that. I've done my time using paper, let the electrons rule (at least while I have power)

[wishboneash]

Which tablet do you utilize?

 

DF

The iPad 2

[Marauder]

Bah Humbug! Well, I loaded the disks from my Mac booting fresh into Windows and on another PC that is on Windows 7. Took the drive to the airport and came up with the same result. Any other suggestions (other than someone volunteering to take this GTN 650 off my hands)?