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Potential purchaser looking for some stick time in an M20

Becca

By Becca
in Vintage Mooneys (pre-J models)

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BigTex Mentor

BigTex

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Not sure you could get a similar outfitted J model with the same SMOH and avionics packages for only an additional $20K.  The ones I looked at that was similar to my C model were at least $90K and most were way over that price.

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jetdriven Grand Master

jetdriven

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Not sure you could get a similar outfitted J model with the same SMOH and avionics packages for only an additional $20K.  The ones I looked at that was similar to my C model were at least $90K and most were way over that price.

 

I have seen M20J's for 60-70K and thats midtime engines etc.

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Becca Experienced

Becca

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Not sure you could get a similar outfitted J model with the same SMOH and avionics packages for only an additional $20K.  The ones I looked at that was similar to my C model were at least $90K and most were way over that price.

 

When we were shopping for our Mooney two years ago, we were seeing M20Cs for $40-50k and M20J's for $60-70k (we were looking at mid-time engines, working IFR stack but nothing fancy in panel, and paint job good enough to last 4-5 years or so).  That was near the bottom of the market, but I think the price trend is about right.

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BigTex Mentor

BigTex

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I purchased my plane 8 months ago and I would of jumped all over a J model that had a 430w, STEC 50, GTX 330, with a mid-time engine, decent paint and interior for $60k... Unless it is a fire sale, I don't think they exist.

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Becca Experienced

Becca

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I purchased my plane 8 months ago and I would of jumped all over a J model that had a 430w, STEC 50, GTX 330, with a mid-time engine, decent paint and interior for $60k... Unless it is a fire sale, I don't think they exist.

 

As I said, basic IFR panel.  I guess that means different things to different people.  For us, that did not include a 430W or GTX330.  :)  We were looking for a 6 pack (rather than shot gun) panel, 2 VOR's and an ILS capability.   Basically what came out of the factory back when the plane was made in '77 with a few mods.  We also ended up with a inop ADF (that we removed) and a VFR KLN-89b GPS.  Paint was 6-7, 1200 hrs SMOH (though we found out later the tach was running fast and it was a little less... shortly after that, we found cam spalling and had to overhaul, so...) 

 

Anyway, that was $61k in early 2011.  We saw one other plane we were considering that was almost exactly the same + G430W for $73k.   Both were right inline with Jimmy G's valuation, not a fire sale prices.   We also considered several 20C's similarly equipped in the mid-$40k range.  Its nice to see plane prices rebounding though if you couldn't find something like that 8 months ago..

 

I think the trouble is there are more planes on the two other ends of the spectrum - run out engines with tons of inop equipment or shiny new with everything new.  And neither of those end up in the mid-range price.  Anyway.

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scottfromiowa Grand Master

scottfromiowa

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Well, that was an interesting read. Good to see the Mooney (vintage) bashing John G giving expert input. Class warfare is alive and well. I agree that a C model is NOT a J. You buy a C and an E because a J is out of your budget. If for any other reason you made a mistake in your buying decision. That said doing it on a budget panel avionics tank seal are great. j bar and manual flaps ARE better period. If I could have found a 67 F with windshield cowl rear side window J bar And reclining seats I would have bought it. The fact that we Vintage Mooney drivers have our speed AND our economy bugs BO drivers. Whatever. I have no Bo envy. You J drivers that is a different story ;). Big and fat don't like sports cars either.

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rob Experienced

rob

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I wouldn't give much thought to anything John Green says. We have all read his diatribes on here.

I don't know much about the 182, but I know that I've overtaken more than a few of them in my M20C. And I know I did it on a lot less fuel. For my mission, there is nothing that fits as well as a short body Mooney.

It's better to be quiet and considered a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

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scottfromiowa Grand Master

scottfromiowa

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I don't think you can buy a GOOD minimal maintenance J that is ready to fly for $60-70k nor do I think you can do the same $40-50k for a "GOOD" C.  These planes have been sitting, are neglected and will need $10-30k or more to make them a reliable airframe.  Of course there are exception, but none I would gamble on.  I would buy EXPECTING to have to drop BIG $ into the plane.  You can't get a J for C,E,F Money...and you definitely can't get a Deb for C money...That won't require a LOT more $.

 

That Throw-Over yoke Beech guys...Good one there.  Really?  Complain about the simplicity of J Bar and Hydraullic flaps.  SHUT THE @#$% UP already.

 

A panel upgrade on a vintage C,E,F and you have an early J That doesn't have speed mods and has less baggage/rear seat room (CE).  These are NOT monumentally different planes...and the vintage price and simplicity of systems are a REAL advantage...unless you bought the model with fine corinthian leather.

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schule Collaborator

schule

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It seems the Bo pilot was very lucky.  Be careful going too fast in any airplane, especially with turbulence.

 

-Mark

 

 

On May 5, 1998, at 0930 hours Pacific daylight time, a Mooney M20K (305 Rocket), N231BY, owned and operated by the pilot, experienced an in-flight breakup while descending. The airplane crashed into an open field about 11 nautical miles southwest of Bakersfield, California. Instrument meteorological conditions prevailed in the vicinity of the accident site, and an instrument flight plan was filed. The airplane was destroyed and the private pilot was fatally injured.

 

During a discussion regarding flutter, the participants indicated that the onset of elevator flutter in this model airplane occurs at speeds in excess of about 241 knots calibrated airspeed.  Based upon the FAA's recorded radar data, between 0920 and 0923 while cruising at 19,100 feet, the airplane's ground speed was 191 knots. During the airplane's last 24 seconds of recorded flight, while descending between 9,600 and 8,200 feet, the airplane's ground speed increased to 240 knots. Also during this time interval, the airplane's average rate of descent was approximately 3,500 feet per minute.

 

At 0956, Bakersfield's weather was reported as follows: Wind 260 degrees at 8 knots; visibility 10 statute miles; light rain; few clouds at 1,700, broken 5,500 feet, broken 7,000 feet; temperature/dew point 17/14 degrees Celsius, respectively; and altimeter 29.86 inches of mercury.

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BigTex Mentor

BigTex

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So what am I missing on the G35 that's on ebay?  With a buy it now price of $12K, you'd think someone would snap it up.  The low time engine alone is worth that.  A salvage yard could make some good money parting this plane out.

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  • 2 weeks later...
mschmuff Collaborator

mschmuff

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Food for thought...I bought a '67 F model a year ago with 200 SMOH, HSI, Century III auto pilot w/ alt hold, dual digital nav/comms w/GS new prop and hub for $35K.  I have put $12k into it and the only thing it needs is a panel mounted IFR gps.  I have a 696 which is included in the $12k so the deals are out there.  I agree $60-$70 seems low for a "J" unless the engine was high time late 70's and avionics haven't been touched since it rolled out of TX.  Most "J's" I have seen start in the $80's that's why I think the "F" is the best buy for the money.  It does 92% of what the "J" does for $30-$40k less.  And even though its only been 1 year I am looking at Eagles and old Ovations now...more like dreaming!

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