The201pilot Posted October 11, 2012 Report Posted October 11, 2012 So LWJ is about to go into the avionics shop for a panel upgrade. Any of you out there that have the 1000 pfd installed, what was the installation time (labour) charged for the unit ? Thanks for the replies.. Quote
Steve Dawson Posted October 11, 2012 Report Posted October 11, 2012 Where are you getting the installtion done Martin? I've recieved a quote from Sarasota for $9500 installed and they would take in the DG and 106 in on trade against the install. Quote
Oscar Avalle Posted October 11, 2012 Report Posted October 11, 2012 Just make sure that they clean up all the old cables that you have in lying around in the back of your panel. This is very labor intensive and takes time and money. Quote
Cruiser Posted October 13, 2012 Report Posted October 13, 2012 this really depends on what is being done. Most of the wiring for the new Aspen can be done on the bench. Connecting it to the airplane system and other avionics can increase the hours considerably. Anywhere between 20 - 40 hrs. Quote
fantom Posted October 14, 2012 Report Posted October 14, 2012 Anywhere between 20 - 40 hrs. Exactly what I've been told and quoted multiple times. Quote
The201pilot Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Posted October 16, 2012 Im (possibly) getting the installation done through my local mooney service centre here in calgary alberta..Cavalier Aviation. They've quoted me 50 hrs install ! in addition to another 5 for the Waas upgrade on my 430.... Quote
steelerp Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 I had this done on 6/30/2010. the turn-key price for my EFD1000-Pro PFD was 10K. no trade in. The tech did it in less then a week. Rick Quote
Oscar Avalle Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 That is way too much... I had my ASPEN installed in 30 hours... Quote
steelerp Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 I should add, that I got a 1K rebate from Aspen so the price to me was really 9K. Rick Quote
Oscar Avalle Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 And the turnkey price was 12K with sinthetic vision. Quote
Cruiser Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 Im (possibly) getting the installation done through my local mooney service centre here in calgary alberta..Cavalier Aviation. They've quoted me 50 hrs install ! in addition to another 5 for the Waas upgrade on my 430.... That may be good depending on how much they discount the Aspen. Assuming you are buying the hardware from them. If they provide the Aspen at their cost the install price is OK even if the hrs are excessive. Look at the overall finished cost. Five hours seem a little high for the 430. Pull the unit and ship to Garmin. Change the antenna and run new cable. Maybe an hours work or a little more depending where the antenna is mounted. Quote
steelerp Posted October 17, 2012 Report Posted October 17, 2012 One last thing, if you use a shop in Oklahoma....no sales tax. And, had I to do it over again...I would have done the MFD at the same time I did the PFD. I didn't...not so much due to the price....but that at the time, I did not see the value of the MFD. I absolutly do now. So, if you can swing it (and the rebates might be better for a 2000 system), get them both. You won't be sorry. I guess that was two things. Oh well. Rick Quote
carusoam Posted October 17, 2012 Report Posted October 17, 2012 Rick you can see why I wanted to have an on line presentation from vendors... I can't tell from their website, what's available and what options I would select for my situation... Either way, an Aspen in my panel would keep me from investing in a new GTN. I have good radios and don't need to replace them. Getting the GTN Nav screen would be nice. Getting a nice screen that isn't controlled by Garmin would be even nicer. Best regards, -a- Quote
mooneyman Posted October 19, 2012 Report Posted October 19, 2012 Anyone know the price of adding the 500 MFD to a panel with existing 1000 PFD? Quote
Cruiser Posted October 19, 2012 Report Posted October 19, 2012 List price for the unit is $4,995. from an ad in Trade-a-Plane **Unit Price $4,390. From $6,195 installed. This unit must be installed by Pacific Coast Avionics Quote
mooneyman Posted October 20, 2012 Report Posted October 20, 2012 List price for the unit is $4,995. from an ad in Trade-a-Plane **Unit Price $4,390. From $6,195 installed. This unit must be installed by Pacific Coast Avionics Not bad! I got email notice of $1500 rebate for MFD 500 + Connected Panel install thru Nov 30. Total would be around $7K after rebate. Quote
Marauder Posted October 29, 2012 Report Posted October 29, 2012 The challenge with providing an answer to the original question (The201Pilot) is that it depends on a bunch of factors. I think that is why a lot of these shops are stating "installations starting from". In my case, I needed to have the Aspen ACU installed and interfaced to my STEC 60-2 (required modifying a control box) and Narco Mark12D+. If you have a DME you want linked, it is another chunk of time. If you need an antennae moved to avoid interference with the RSM, more time. Also, as was mentioned above, doing the install right by building new harnesses when needed and removing the old ones will drive up the cost. I had 5 quotes for the exact same work provided to me from 5 different shops. There was a range of $8k between the highest and lowest quotes. Even the grouping in the middle had a spread of $3k. The shop I went with was able to send me to former customers so I could check out the quality of their work. I also asked a bunch of questions about how they handled the "variables" (you know the stuff they always come back to you with after they open it up). I offered my plane for a pre-inspection so they knew what they were going to quote. Quote
Marauder Posted October 29, 2012 Report Posted October 29, 2012 And, had I to do it over again...I would have done the MFD at the same time I did the PFD. I didn't...not so much due to the price....but that at the time, I did not see the value of the MFD. I absolutly do now. So, if you can swing it (and the rebates might be better for a 2000 system), get them both. You won't be sorry. I guess that was two things. Oh well. Rick I almost did the same thing. Fortunately, I asked about the MFD and learned about it to make the decision to include it during the install. I almost went with the 500, but once realizing that the 1000 bought you full redundancy for the PFD, it was an easier decision (although not a cheaper one!). I was really surprised to learn what the MFD offered. Quote
Txbyker Posted October 30, 2012 Report Posted October 30, 2012 In regards to the MFD, do you see a big advantage over an Aera 796 yoke mounted tethered to a Garmin 650? I am going for a PFD but other than redundancy I can't see a compelling reason for the MFD over the touch screen 796 with XM weather, music, etc. The MFD looks good but I am spoiled by Garmin's touch screens. I have read posts about regrets in not getting the MFD at install and just wondering. Now, that connected panel seems cool though. Russ 1 Quote
Marauder Posted October 30, 2012 Report Posted October 30, 2012 In regards to the MFD, do you see a big advantage over an Aera 796 yoke mounted tethered to a Garmin 650? I am going for a PFD but other than redundancy I can't see a compelling reason for the MFD over the touch screen 796 with XM weather, music, etc. The MFD looks good but I am spoiled by Garmin's touch screens. I have read posts about regrets in not getting the MFD at install and just wondering. Now, that connected panel seems cool though. Russ Hi Russ, I think the 796 has almost all of the MFD features. The biggest difference is the integration with the rest of the stack. The MFD can take over all of the navigation and autopilot tasks from the PFD including both navs at the same time. It can also share the navigation responsibilities with the PFD. The rest of the features (synthetic vision, weather, charts) appear to be the same as in the 796. I too am a big fan of the Garmin portables. I started with the 55, then the moving map 95XL (what a step up from LORAN!), a 90, a 295 and finally a 496. The biggest issue I had with the Garmin portables is that they all fell into a "discontinued" status which forced me to buy the next version when I couldn't get a database update. I figured I have laid out close to 3/4 the cost of the MFD with the portables (the challenge of being addicted to new technology). I'm expecting the the panel mounted stuff will be supported for a much longer period of time and based on the fact the Aspen are capable of taking software updates, kept current with new features. I do wish though they were touch screens. I have been checking out the Connected Panel as well. It looks like it only will support the 430/530 at this point, but it should eventually support the GTN series (if Garmin will open up their hierarchy, there is a current issue with the cross fill on the 430/530 that they are trying to resolve). Being able to download your flight plan to the airplane is a big savings in time. Quote
podair Posted October 30, 2012 Report Posted October 30, 2012 On the MFD, can you use half of it as a CDI or RMI? Or do you need a full PFD to do that, aka Evolution 2000? The upgrade I am planning would involve buying a new CDI for the nav2 vor/ils , but if the MFD can handle it then it offsets some of the cost of buying a mechanical CDI. Also, I like the Connected Panel concept and hope to display the Edm700 on that. I would like to have some redundancy if the Aspen packs up however, so maybe I ll stick with a new VOR/ILS CDI anyway, as I guess a sensor failure would affect both screens. Quote
Marauder Posted October 30, 2012 Report Posted October 30, 2012 On the MFD, can you use half of it as a CDI or RMI? Or do you need a full PFD to do that, aka Evolution 2000? The upgrade I am planning would involve buying a new CDI for the nav2 vor/ils , but if the MFD can handle it then it offsets some of the cost of buying a mechanical CDI. Also, I like the Connected Panel concept and hope to display the Edm700 on that. I would like to have some redundancy if the Aspen packs up however, so maybe I ll stick with a new VOR/ILS CDI anyway, as I guess a sensor failure would affect both screens. I'm only familiar with the MFD 1000, so you will need to check what the 500 can do if you go that route. The 1000 is essentially a PFD Pro. It has all of the same sensors built into it and is interfaced to take over all of the PFD functions. It is a full backup for the PFD and has logic built into it to determine if the PFD has failed. What I don't like is that in order to get full redundancy, you would need to have a completely separate pitot/static system (one fed to the PFD & one to the MFD) to have true redundancy. The shared pitot/static system is a single point of failure. But since I have been flying IFR for 20 years, it always has been a single point of failure in my plane. One area I asked specifically about was whether the MFD 1000 could display the output of the number 2 Nav while the PFD handled the output of Nav 1. The answer was yes and because of that, I am having the mechanical CDI removed for Nav 2. My logic was if I had a power failure the Nav 2 CDI would be dead anyways. And since the PFD/MFD are separate, if one failed, I still would have the other and it's battery backup. I know the PFD can handle one Nav source for the HSI and two other bearing inputs. Where things are a bit confusing is what happens if you have the PFD connected to Nav1 and then you select it on the MFD as the primary Nav signal, who's in charge? So, in theory at least, you should be able to have your Nav 2 setup in the MFD and monitor it while flying Nav 1. Since my avionics are still being installed, I won't have all the answers until I see it first hand in action. I am counting on the avionics shop providing me correct answers on how the final configuration will work. There is a lot in the manuals, and I am still going through them. I will keep you posted as I learn more. As for failures, the PFD and MFD have their own separate power supply. If the electrical system were to fail, the built in GPS in the Aspen provides basic mapping. It also says in the manual that the flight plan loaded in from the Nav unit will be retained. So, it sounds like the Aspen at least for the life of the backup battery can continue to navigate, at least in a basic function. What I don't know is if you experience an electrical failure, can you just shut down the MFD and "save" it's battery backup if you need to extend longer than the PFD backup can last. More questions to answer... Another thing to consider is the nav signals themselves. My primary Nav will be a GTN 650. This is a digital interface with the Aspens. My Narco 12D+ is analog through an ACU (so is my STEC 60-2) interface. So, if you lose the ACU, you lose the output for the Narco on the Aspen and GPSS steering on the AP (and probably the coupling for VLOC). Again, what I don't know is if the AP will function as it did in the past. Probably not because the Nav output goes only to the Aspen. It should still function for heading, vertical speed and altitude hold -- just not for the nav features. Again more questions... All I know is that it will take me some time to digest all of the permutations of what the new avionics will bring me -- as well as what limitations (new or old) that I still will need to understand fully. Quote
HeyChuck Posted November 28, 2012 Report Posted November 28, 2012 Where are you getting the installtion done Martin? I've recieved a quote from Sarasota for $9500 installed and they would take in the DG and 106 in on trade against the install. Sarasota Avionics just quoted me $12,500 for the PFD 1000 installed, and said they had never done one for as cheap as $9,500. I am looking for a good shop to do the installation, preferable in the Rocky Mtn region. Any other recommendations? Quote
fantom Posted November 28, 2012 Report Posted November 28, 2012 There has to be more to it....trades? what's in the panel now? options? Maybe a year and a half ago I was quoted $9.5K also. There are four different Sarasota shops, and they don't all have they same pricing, as flyboy and I discovered. Quote
HeyChuck Posted November 28, 2012 Report Posted November 28, 2012 They quoted $12.5k for the PFD 1000 Pro. If the $9.5 quote was for the basic PFD 1000, that would explain the price difference. Santa Fe Aero was more expensive, and dubious that the installation could actually be done for $12.5k, (if old wiring is to be removed, etc.) Quote
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