Aircraft for sale denied medical

[Little Dipper]

My medical was denied because of sleep anemia.  I am appealing it but it appears my flying career is at the end of the road.   I have a 1995 Ovation that is in pristine condition and am looking for advice on where to take it to be sold.

Norm Clemmer 

N995K

[76Srat]

So sorry to hear this, Norm.  @jgarrison would be a great resource for selling your bird.

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

To my understanding, sleep apnea isn't normally a tough one to get around if you use the CPAP.

[hammdo]

I have sleep apnea and got an SI. I also had heart failure (now in great shape), type 2, and was able to get a third class medical, then do basic med. You can overcome this for sure. 
 

-Don

[GeeBee]

I flew Part 121 with crew members who had an SI for sleep apnea. They just had to use a CPAP machine with data logging and provide that data each 6 months. No big deal. You can do it Norm!

[FLYFST]

Don’t sell Norm! Have a sleep doctor issue you a CPAP that records data, get at least a month of usage data (check with AME or AOPA medical for guidance on how much), send data along with letter from the sleep doctor saying the sleep apnea is under control to the FAA medical examiner requesting a Special Issuance certificate. It is no big deal to have one issued and continue enjoying your bird.
Regards -Hank


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hank]

1 hour ago, FLYFST said:

Don’t sell Norm! Have a sleep doctor issue you a CPAP that records data, get at least a month of usage data (check with AME or AOPA medical for guidance on how much), send data along with letter from the sleep doctor saying the sleep apnea is under control to the FAA medical examiner requesting a Special Issuance certificate. It is no big deal to have one issued and continue enjoying your bird.
Regards -Hank

Once your SI arrives, stop getting Class 3 and change over to BasicMed. Life is very good on this side!

[M20F]

6 minutes ago, Hank said:

Once your SI arrives, stop getting Class 3 and change over to BasicMed. Life is very good on this side!

This, zero reason to get anything else.   

[MikeOH]

Zero reason to appeal; it'll just get denied.

Get a CPAP, and go get the SI, then Basic Med!  This is NOT hard.

[dkkim73]

There might be more to the OP's situation but, from recent research, treatable OSA (obstructive sleep apnea) alone has a defined path for a special issuance. 

I've heard a few stories recently about people who had an interaction with an AME where they took a conclusion as final or read it more broadly than they needed to. Worth finding a good ally to work through this with. 

Again, there might be more to your situation. 

[Vance Harral]

First need to clarify if the OP simply has obstructive sleep apnea, or actual anemia interrelated with some sort of sleep problem.

If it's "only" OSA, the special-issuance medical has become very common and arguably trivial compared with other denials (I speak from experience, I've been carrying a 2nd class SI medical with OSA for years).  Make an appointment with a sleep clinic.  Meet the doc and pick up the at-home-sleep-test-equipment (make sure it's "Type II", see https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/OSA_FAQs.pdf).  Wear the test equipment one night, send results to the clinic.  For better or worse, you're essentially guaranteed to receive a diagnosis for OSA and a recommendation to treat with CPAP therapy.  Buy the CPAP equipment and get used to sleeping with it (this is the hardest part, but you can do it).  As soon as you and your doc agree you are "tolerating therapy", you can apply for the SI.  Downtime on this is measured in weeks, not years, and you can fly with a PIC-current qualified pilot and/or instructor while waiting on the process.

There are treatments other than CPAP such as dental devices, but I can't speak to that personally.

[DXB]

22 hours ago, Little Dipper said:

My medical was denied because of sleep anemia.  I am appealing it but it appears my flying career is at the end of the road.   I have a 1995 Ovation that is in pristine condition and am looking for advice on where to take it to be sold.

Norm Clemmer 

N995K

I assume you mean sleep apnea - one should be able to get around that.  But remember the FAA Medical Branch is a bureacratic meat grinder that will casually end your flying career for no real justification at all.  It is run by bottom barrel physicians with almost zero incentive to understand the detailed reality of any medical situation.   

They will not do the right thing unless forced to do so.    GET A LAWYER WITH EXPERIENCE IN AEROMEDICAL MATTERS IN DEALING WITH THE FAA.  I can recommend a couple of excellent ones and share my related experience with the medical branch if you want to PM me.   THIS CAN CERTAINLY WORK OUT IN YOUR FAVOR, BUT YOU HAVE TO BE VERY PROACTIVE IN DEALING WITH THE FAA.

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, DXB said:

I assume you mean sleep apnea - one should be able to get around that.  But remember the FAA Medical Branch is a bureacratic meat grinder that will casually end your flying career for no real justification at all.  It is run by bottom barrel physicians with almost zero incentive to understand the detailed reality of any medical situation.   

They will not do the right thing unless forced to do so.    GET A LAWYER WITH EXPERIENCE IN AEROMEDICAL MATTERS IN DEALING WITH THE FAA.  I can recommend a couple of excellent ones and share my related experience with the medical branch if you want to PM me.   THIS CAN CERTAINLY WORK OUT IN YOUR FAVOR, BUT YOU HAVE TO BE VERY PROACTIVE IN DEALING WITH THE FAA.

Geez Dev, don’t mince words, tell us how you really feel!  I’m sure that your feelings are justified. I’m sorry that you had a lousy experience.

[Bolter]

Curious of how many of us moved to Basic Med.  Started a poll:

 

[MikeOH]

51 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Geez Dev, don’t mince words, tell us how you really feel!  I’m sure that your feelings are justified. I’m sorry that you had a lousy experience.

Have you had to deal with OKC on ANYTHING beyond just a normal 3rd Class AME in-office exam?

If not, then be careful giving OKC much credit.  Their default attitude/response is one of denial and demand for a plethora of data backed up with a large dose of 'protect the public'/'save the children' rationalization. Oh, and time is NOT important to THEM whatsoever (except how little time you are give to provide info back to them!). So, yeah, I've had lousy experiences, too!

[M20F]

42 minutes ago, Bolter said:

Curious of how many of us moved to Basic Med.  Started a poll:

 

I am more curious as to why anyone wouldn’t be flying under basic med. 

[Justin Schmidt]

37 minutes ago, M20F said:

I am more curious as to why anyone wouldn’t be flying under basic med. 

Flying outside The US

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, MikeOH said:

Have you had to deal with OKC on ANYTHING beyond just a normal 3rd Class AME in-office exam?

If not, then be careful giving OKC much credit.  Their default attitude/response is one of denial and demand for a plethora of data backed up with a large dose of 'protect the public'/'save the children' rationalization. Oh, and time is NOT important to THEM whatsoever (except how little time you are give to provide info back to them!). So, yeah, I've had lousy experiences, too!

My comment was not meant as a defense of the OKC nor a criticism of Dev. It was simply me recognizing that they must have really done something to piss Dev off to elicit such a strongly worded rebuke.

I experienced OKC through my dad's eyes and it was not a good experience.  My dad was able to work through the SI process after bypass surgery. Several years later his PCP innocently prescribed him Metformin for elevated blood sugar levels; he was not a type II diabetic (and still isn't at 87) but was trending in the wrong direction. OKC's view was that a Metformin script equaled a diabetes diagnosis. He could not un-ring that bell even with a letter from his PCP, AME and blood work. I think it would have been possible to correct if he wasn't on an existing SI.

He hung it up after a few years muddling through two SI's a year.  He would start working on the next year's SI approval shortly after being issued his current SI. That was nearly 10 years ago. I'd hoped that things had improved.

[Schllc]

Sometimes people are just looking for the excuse to hang it up….

[Jackk]

If you are an aviator, understand catching a diagnosis is often the same as a non-pilot catching a felony. 
 

 

[Jackk]

4 hours ago, M20F said:

I am more curious as to why anyone wouldn’t be flying under basic med. 

Flying for hire 

[Jackk]

9 hours ago, DXB said:

I assume you mean sleep apnea - one should be able to get around that.  But remember the FAA Medical Branch is a bureacratic meat grinder that will casually end your flying career for no real justification at all.  It is run by bottom barrel physicians with almost zero incentive to understand the detailed reality of any medical situation.   

They will not do the right thing unless forced to do so.    GET A LAWYER WITH EXPERIENCE IN AEROMEDICAL MATTERS IN DEALING WITH THE FAA.  I can recommend a couple of excellent ones and share my related experience with the medical branch if you want to PM me.   THIS CAN CERTAINLY WORK OUT IN YOUR FAVOR, BUT YOU HAVE TO BE VERY PROACTIVE IN DEALING WITH THE FAA.

 ^this x100

[DXB]

12 hours ago, Shadrach said:

My comment was not meant as a defense of the OKC nor a criticism of Dev. It was simply me recognizing that they must have really done something to piss Dev off to elicit such a strongly worded rebuke.

I experienced OKC through my dad's eyes and it was not a good experience.  My dad was able to work through the SI process after bypass surgery. Several years later his PCP innocently prescribed him Metformin for elevated blood sugar levels; he was not a type II diabetic (and still isn't at 87) but was trending in the wrong direction. OKC's view was that a Metformin script equaled a diabetes diagnosis. He could not un-ring that bell even with a letter from his PCP, AME and blood work. I think it would have been possible to correct if he wasn't on an existing SI.

He hung it up after a few years muddling through two SI's a year.  He would start working on the next year's SI approval shortly after being issued his current SI. That was nearly 10 years ago. I'd hoped that things had improved.

Very sorry your dad had to go through that. He had a very typical SI encounter - nothing has changed.  Some of their most absurd SI requirements are imposed through the HIMS program - a glimmer of hope there is a bill before congress to force FAA to reform that program.   But the key is never to get dumped into an SI or HIMS bin in the first place - that will usually make you give up (or put up with living permanently inside a Kafkaesque dystopia if one is an airline guy).  One more glimmer of hope - the NTSB judges that hear appeals to medical denials/deferrals have gotten more pilot-friendly in the last year or so for some reason.  Their longstanding MO had been only to rule in favor of pilots if the Medical Branch had made an egregious error in applying their own oppressive written rules to pilots, resulting in very few reversals. Now they seem to be actually looking at the details of the situation, resulting in more rulings in favor of pilots.  The downstream effect is much more hassle for the Medical Branch buffoons in defending their actions in front of an NTSB judge, making them more likely to cave up front if you lawyer up with someone experienced in communicating in the language that might produce a reversal by an NTSB judge.  For this reason, I can't emphasize enough the importance of (1) extreme caution in communicating with any physician, and being very proactive in influencing how they document any issue in the medical record - for instance the "sleep apnea"diagnosis might have been averted up front here through reframing the semantics, using a different diagnostic code   (2)  Doing everything possible to avoid getting put in the special issuance category in the first place  (3) Getting a lawyer IMMEDIATELY at the first sign of trouble with the FAA - there are a just handful of individuals/firms nationally that are particularly facile at dealing with the Medical Branch, which suddenly tends to act more reasonably when all communication is on their letterhead, not directly from you. (4)  DO NOT SEEK HELP FROM AOPA PILOT PROTECTION / MEDICAL SERVICES.   They often align their "advocacy" with the positions of the FAA Medical Branch, to a degree that one top tier aeromedical attorney described to me as legal malpractice.  

[Jerry 5TJ]

14 hours ago, M20F said:

I am more curious as to why anyone wouldn’t be flying under basic med. 

flying above FL180

[Vance Harral]

22 hours ago, DXB said:

They will not do the right thing unless forced to do so.

Well, as with any large, bureaucratic organization, it's hit or miss.  My OSA SI, and a friend's SI for a stent, were relatively painless.  Good experience with the AME that handled the process, reasonably prompt response from CAMI, requirements well-documented and evidence thereof accepted without further question.  SI in-hand after a few weeks for me and a few months for my friend.

There's no doubt others have bad experiences, and I'm sure one's likelihood of a good/bad experience varies from year to year as staff, administrators, and the executive branch change.  But I also think it's important to give counterpoints to the sort of guaranteed-gloom-and-doom outlook other folks make here, because that sort of panic is exactly what leads people to conclude they have to sell their airplane and give up flying, when it's not actually the case.

No quarrel from me about moving to BasicMed (or MOSAIC Sport pilot now) once a standard medical is obtained.  But a subset of us want to preserve the legal right to offer paid ferry services, fly turbo Mooneys above 18,000, and so on.