Rocket in landing incident at KHND.

[aviatoreb]

13 minutes ago, 201er said:

There isn't a penalty for this at the rear CG envelope with baggage and rear seats filled?

No - it’s still forward of a j and it is still a generally forward cg plane but it did move back a good bit so it’s no longer extremely forward.  I can’t remember the numbers but I think it’s just a tiny bit behind an original k.

[aviatoreb]

15 minutes ago, 201er said:

There isn't a penalty for this at the rear CG envelope with baggage and rear seats filled?

Oh - and the lighter prop did help the weight but I hardly have the weight to lift 4 passengers and bags.  I can’t remember lift 4 tiny people (not me) - a tiny bit of fuel - and toothbrushes for all .

last time I flew with 4 was when my youngest was in elementary school and my middle son in middle school.  Well my youngest is starting grad school in England in the fall.

i can and occasionally do flights with 3.

[IvanP]

13 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

 lift 4 tiny people (not me) - a tiny bit of fuel - and toothbrushes for all .

l

Well, Mooneys are not really 4-people planes, even the long bodied ones. Too cramped in the back seat. My Bravo with Monroy tanks is essentially 1-peron and couple of bags plane with full tanks (I am a bit chunky), or 2 -people (me and my wife) with about 4 hrs of fuel and couple of bags on board.   

[Hank]

5 hours ago, IvanP said:

Well, Mooneys are not really 4-people planes, even the long bodied ones. Too cramped in the back seat. My Bravo with Monroy tanks is essentially 1-peron and couple of bags plane with full tanks (I am a bit chunky), or 2 -people (me and my wife) with about 4 hrs of fuel and couple of bags on board.   

Seem to fit 4 in my C without anyone being an amputee . . . . The guy in the first photo is over 6 feet tall. And yes, the second photo has mother and child in the back.

The previous owner of my C took 4 people from WV to FL for a few days, then back again. I haven't tried anything of that scale.

[aviatoreb]

6 hours ago, Hank said:

Seem to fit 4 in my C without anyone being an amputee . . . . The guy in the first photo is over 6 feet tall. And yes, the second photo has mother and child in the back.

The previous owner of my C took 4 people from WV to FL for a few days, then back again. I haven't tried anything of that scale.

I am 6'4'' and unusually long legs even for my height.  I had an extra hold added to the pilot position rails added so my seat goes back a bit further even then regulation.  No one over the age of 6 would want to sit behind me.  Which is just fine since that works nicely with the weight and balance.

[1980Mooney]

On 7/4/2025 at 3:47 PM, Ragsf15e said:

Maybe, but Rocket’s hanger at KSFF looks deserted and has a for sale sign on the front.

 

On 7/4/2025 at 10:51 PM, Ragsf15e said:

Yep. I’ll be out there Tuesday to help attach my “new” starter adapter and ill try to get a picture.

Let us know anything that you find out about Rocket Engineering when you are out there today - if they are still in business at KSFF.  Looking online, Darwin Conrad, Founder of Rocket Engineering and JetProp DLX (both in the same facility), shows to be 75 years old now.  Thanks in advance.

Edited July 8 by 1980Mooney

[IvanP]

10 hours ago, Hank said:

Seem to fit 4 in my C without anyone being an amputee . . . . The guy in the first photo is over 6 feet tall. And yes, the second photo has mother and child in the back.

The previous owner of my C took 4 people from WV to FL for a few days, then back again. I haven't tried anything of that scale.

I did not say it cannot be done. It is a matter of comfort for the passengers. I have been in a back seat of a Mooney and would not want to repeat that experience. It is kind of like cramming four people in Porsche 911 - it can be done, but it is not a fun ride for those poor souls in the back.   

I flew my E with 3 people on board couple of times for relatively short hops and according to the passengers in the rear it was tolerable, but not enjoyable experience. For my thirsty Bravo, my issue is mostly with weight. I can load passengers or fuel but not both. 

[natdm]

18 minutes ago, IvanP said:

I did not say it cannot be done. It is a matter of comfort for the passengers. I have been in a back seat of a Mooney and would not want to repeat that experience. It is kind of like cramming four people in Porsche 911 - it can be done, but it is not a fun ride for those poor souls in the back.   

I've been in the back of my own Mooney mid-body while it flew and I was totally fine, at 6'1". I always ask anyone that sat in back how they felt, and I pester them for some honesty. They've never ever said it was hard to get in, get out, or that they didn't have leg-room. That includes some heavy-set mid-western people. There's obviously limits but I think I'm saying that your experience isn't shared by everyone. 

Maybe it's the seats? Mine were redone ten years ago and they're thinner, while being more comfortable -- leaving a bit more room. I've also got the 1979 bench seat which might be different than the fold-down ones, which I really want. 

The front seat is different, it seems to be hard for everyone to get out.

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

Let us know anything that you find out about Rocket Engineering when you are out there today - if they are still in business at KSFF.  Looking online, Darwin Conrad, Founder of Rocket Engineering and JetProp DLX (both in the same facility), shows to be 75 years old now.  Thanks in advance.

looks deserted.

[IvanP]

The seats definitely make a difference, no question about it. The seats in my E were really nice, even in the back, but I still would not want to spend too long of a time there. I think its is just my personal preference and I am not rying to convince anyone one way or another.

I do not seem to have any issues getting in or out of the front seat, though. My 6'4" friend who flies with me occasionally also seems to be quite comfortable getting in and out of the front seat of the Bravo without any problems. 

The weight issue is a different story - opinions or personal preferences do not change the physics.   

[201er]

 

[IvanP]

Interesting. Just curious about how a storm would cause the bent props on parked aircraft with engines off  We know that the Rocket did not get mangled by a storm and I bet that none of the other planes showing signs of prop strike were victims of the storm.     

[natdm]

Clearly it was a storm of prop-strikes. 

[KLRDMD]

3 hours ago, IvanP said:

Interesting. Just curious about how a storm would cause the bent props on parked aircraft with engines off  We know that the Rocket did not get mangled by a storm and I bet that none of the other planes showing signs of prop strike were victims of the storm.     

A few of those airplanes have been parked in the south open tie downs for months. That PC12 plus another Mooney for sure.

Edited Wednesday at 01:30 AM by KLRDMD

[201er]

2 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

A few of those airplanes have been parked in the south open tie downs for months. That PC12 plus anotner Mooney for sure.

Is there something about that airport? Or just a statistical inevitability in proportion to high traffic volume?

[NickG]

23 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

A few of those airplanes have been parked in the south open tie downs for months. That PC12 plus anotner Mooney for sure.

The PC12, Piper Meridian and Mooney were all recent landing mishaps at HND. The C172 next to them was an engine out that landed beyond the field. All the others are damage due to the microburst. Winds at HND can be a little unpredictable as it blows in through the ridge in the mountains about 5 miles south of the field. Sometimes we get different wind directions on the north and south end of the runway. There is no precision approach and straight in traffic to the 35’s can often leave you high and fast. There is no xwind runway.

[cliffy]

I was based at HND for 10 years and flew in many types of windy weather - but not when big T storms were around .  There's nothing really too tricky about HND if one uses their head. Gusty 30 kt crosswinds? No way. But most anything else is doable for a reasonable pilot. Therein lies the crux of the matter. Too much autopilot and too little hands on practice at 25 hrs a year?

Like I said I've seen a 727 blown 180 degrees over wheel chocks and a Citation out on its tail by big T storms there.  Reason must prevail or we lose another airframe to the junkyard dogs. 

[NickG]

38 minutes ago, cliffy said:

I was based at HND for 10 years and flew in many types of windy weather - but not when big T storms were around .  There's nothing really too tricky about HND if one uses their head. Gusty 30 kt crosswinds? No way. But most anything else is doable for a reasonable pilot. Therein lies the crux of the matter. Too much autopilot and too little hands on practice at 25 hrs a year?

Like I said I've seen a 727 blown 180 degrees over wheel chocks and a Citation out on its tail by big T storms there.  Reason must prevail or we lose another airframe to the junkyard dogs. 

I’ve been landing here at HND for years as it’s my home base. Just can’t get complacent but that’s true for any landing

[hazek]

Three main things for landings that are being taught incorrectly very often:

1. instructors teach to judge height by reference to various visual cues that require experience and "feel"
2. pilots are taught to land too fast
3. pilots are not taught to not overcontrol and jerk the yoke around like they're driving a rally car

1. can be fixed by learning the Jacobson flare, works like a charm every time on any runway of any size and shape/slope

2. can be fixed by understand that speed is the most important aspect of a landing and making sure a pilot does everything necessary to always hit the right speed

3. this one is the simplest, leave the ailerons alone unless you need to start a bank to fly a turn or you experience a huge 30°+ upset, use pressure only to make small corrections and mostly use rudder to step on a rising wing if you have to

 

I wasn't taught any of these as I was learning to fly but had to find this info on my own. I bet that's true for most pilots. And then average pilots have problems.

[kortopates]

There is no such thing as a “average pilot”. Just ask any pilot! lol


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[201er]

5 hours ago, hazek said:

2. can be fixed by understand that speed is the most important aspect of a landing and making sure a pilot does everything necessary to always hit the right speed

Actually it’s not about speed at all. Speed is totally misleading because it’s a bit different for every landing. Speed is different depending where you look ASI, GPS, or out the window. Some of those speeds vary with wind, temperature, or altitude. Some of those speeds vary with weight. The right speed one landing is the wrong speed on another and worse yet you’re being fed an assortment of conflicting speed information by your ears, eyes, and instruments.

AOA is the only relevant and consistent thing for approach pitch reference.

[hazek]

2 hours ago, 201er said:

AOA is the only relevant and consistent thing for approach pitch reference.

In straight and level on final ASI is good enough reference to the appropriate AoA and that's the speed I was referring to. But you are correct and more accurate of course.

[Skates97]

On 7/7/2025 at 11:56 AM, aviatoreb said:

It can be improved.  The 4 blade my on my rocket has 2” of prop clearance recovered and removes 35lb from the nose which greatly improves the balance.

And it looks amazing!

[1980Mooney]

On 7/8/2025 at 10:18 AM, Ragsf15e said:

looks deserted.

What does the sign on the folding door say?  Does it say Rocket Engineering or is that a realtor sign?  I can’t make it out as posted. Maybe your original is higher resolution. 

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, 1980Mooney said:

What does the sign on the folding door say?  Does it say Rocket Engineering or is that a realtor sign?  I can’t make it out as posted. Maybe your original is higher resolution. 

Sorry, yes, it’s a realtor sign.  Ive seen them cleaning out both hangers over the last few months.