Boeing announces $10.55 billion deal to divest Jeppesen, ForeFlight, AerData and OzRunways to Thoma Bravo

[MikeOH]

39 minutes ago, 76Srat said:

we as a general aviation lobby simply don't matter for squat when it comes to what will actually happen to that which we use while flying

BINGO!

That's it in a nutshell.

[76Srat]

. . . but damn ain't that fancy air conditioned Boeing village at AirVenture nice?  Let's hope they keep that for us at least one more year.  It's always fun and nice to duck in there for a cool rest, once in a while.  I'm also a huge fan of Boeing actually sponsoring the youth-get-in-free movement for anyone under 18 being allowed in to AirVenture for free (with a paid, ticketed adult).  Don't get me started on why EAA doesn't just cover this anyway, but I digress . . . 

[dkkim73]

8 hours ago, hubcap said:

Remember ----- Remington, Toys-R-Us and Red Lobster? The same exact thing happened to all those companies. I think TWA had a similar ending......

This is *exactly* what I was talking about with respect to killing companies with no respect. 

They'll enshittify random companies like rental cars, etc, but they do kill brands with actual cultural value.  

 

[dkkim73]

You know, people debate open source as to whether it is optimal for for-profit development or not, whether it is "as effective" as a well-managed owned team, etc. 

Certainly the feature factory and support aspects of Foreflight are hard to beat by a small shop. Same for drawing programs and even email clients (though the latter is a success story in niches). 

*BUT* a big draw of open source has always been that "they can't take it away". If our favorite paid services become unaffordable or unusable, at least there's some options for GA pilots to work with. At that point, support interest might be higher. 

That said, either big corporations or governments can starve open source communities by other methods. 

Main risk to GA products would be currently free data sources. OTOH I would argue that chart and meteo info is "public infrastructure", like road signs and road cleaning, for which we pay plenty already. But hey that's like saying small airports are public infrastructure and Vector is a grift. Or a grift enabler

 

[0TreeLemur]

14 hours ago, EricJ said:

I don't know why they thought they had to change the entire UI

This seems to be all the rage.  Ugh.   However, if they do jack up the price of ff, all I need is:

• Ability to enter a flight plan
• Moving map with sectional and IFR chart overlay
• FIS-B weather display & ADS-B traffic
• Ability to view airport info
• Display approach plates - georeferencing would be a bonus but not necessary, I get that off my IFD540.

Cursory examination of AvareX suggests that it might fit the bill.  And it doesn't look like an '80's video game.

[Vance Harral]

22 hours ago, EricJ said:

There is no manual, that's part of the whole deal.   It's supposed to be so intuitive that it doesn't need a manual.

I've seen this movie dozens of times in my career.  The words that come out of the developer(s) mouth are "It doesn't need a manual".  But you need to understand this for what it really is, which is, "I don't like writing manuals, so I'm just not going to do it."

For better or worse, the industry accepts this, mainly because software is almost entirely developed and managed by people with skill sets that don't include great written communication.  It's telling that In decades of doing this work, I have literally never seen someone financially rewarded for excellent documentation, or scolded/put on a PIP/whatever for poor documentation.

A few projects put in the work somehow, Foreflight being one example.  There have also been interesting efforts toward "The code is the documentation", e.g. Literate Programming and tools that support it.  These things tend to fail because actually making use of them is even more effort than just writing the documentation conventionally, and developers already don't want to do the latter.

It's possible LLMs might make this better, but I'm not holding my breath. 

[EricJ]

8 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

This seems to be all the rage.  Ugh.   However, if they do jack up the price of ff, all I need is:

• Ability to enter a flight plan
• Moving map with sectional and IFR chart overlay
• FIS-B weather display & ADS-B traffic
• Ability to view airport info
• Display approach plates - georeferencing would be a bonus but not necessary, I get that off my IFD540.

Cursory examination of AvareX suggests that it might fit the bill.  And it doesn't look like an '80's video game.

AvareX is a fairly full-featured EFB, and if the user interface and display methodology works for you then it's a good option.   It's free, charts and plates are free and geo-referenced, etc., etc.    I just got tired of the UI really quickly, but that's just me.

[wood_fly]

OMG How far off kilter have we run on this topic?

From the AIRLINE point of view: Foreflight was cute, but it's a bunch of overly-enthusiastic GA pilot types trying to invent the next best thing and pushing updates every week. Enough already.

Everytime there is an update, it involves manual changes and training which is a PITA (+FAA certification). When we had JeppFD, we could just display charts, and not to sound old-school, but it WORKED. After Boeing took over, they LIED to us and said JeppFD was dead (which it was for all by 121 operators which forced us into ForeFlight). More $$$.

So as an OG Foretran guy, who also understands ATOS/SMS, I am REALLY surprised the FAA allowed them to sell it to someone who has NO idea what the highest level is safest is all about and will surely divide and sell off the pieces.

My prayer is for someone to save the original Jepp to be the forefront of charting - just charting. Just get us to the ground safely both in the iPad and our electronic (Garmin/Avidyne/Honeywell/Smith) subscriptions please. There are a LOT of really good people working at Jepp checking NOTAMS worldwide for obstacles and other changes to keep us safe. Let's not through the baby out with the bathwater.

[Brent]

On 4/22/2025 at 10:44 AM, N201MKTurbo said:

Thoma Bravo business model is to expand the companies they acquire. Aviation is kind of stagnant. I think everybody that wants ForeFlight already has it. I’m not sure how they are planning to expand it. The same with Jeppesen. 

Au contraire. I would contend the aerospace industry (overall, not just our kind of GA) has been hugely resilient overt last 10+ years and growing at good rates. Consequently, there has been significant merger and acquisition activity among both strategic owners and PE investors. That said, I concede the outlook right this minute is a little dicey; a recession will kill demand.

Thomas Bravo paid $10 billion for Jeppesen, ForeFlight, and Boeing's digital aviation solutions business (commercial aviation and maintenance analytics and related services, I believe.) Jeppesen is the go-to supplier of navigation and charting data around the world, including outside the US; huge existing customer base. ForeFlight is growing up into business aviation and perhaps has designs for commercial aviation at the company subscription level, not just individual pilots carrying it. In any case, the proxy I use to gauge industry growth is commercial and business aircraft fleet growth, currently 5-10% per year. The fleet growth drives associated support activities. 

I think Thoma Braca will do OK. There's organic growth available and good M&A potential later. Another poster suggested you might see the businesses split up on the other end (typically 3-5 years), and I can see that. The question is how they'll operate the business in the interim, strategically or with the cost hammer? I hope the former. Either way, I won't be surprised to see my ForeFlight and Jepp costs going up.  Thus far, I get the value I need. We'll see going forward.    

[Fly Boomer]

On 4/22/2025 at 11:06 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

I inherited a system that used a 68HC11 running LISP. It was a propane tissue freezer. I screwed with the LISP code for a while, but finally said screw it and rewrote it in assembly. I don’t remember anything about LISP.

I was once handed an RPG “program” and asked if I could make a couple of changes.  After looking at it for a few minutes, I told my manager I couldn’t figure it out.  Didn’t want to be “the RPG guy”.

 

On 4/22/2025 at 11:06 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

[flyboy0681]

On 4/26/2025 at 5:59 PM, Fly Boomer said:

I was once handed an RPG “program” and asked if I could make a couple of changes.  After looking at it for a few minutes, I told my manager I couldn’t figure it out.  Didn’t want to be “the RPG guy”.

 

I am "the RPG guy", having been programming with it since 1984.  IBM has been very good to me.

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, flyboy0681 said:

I am "the RPG guy", having been programming with it since 1984.  IBM has been very good to me.

Probably doesn’t look the same as it did in 1970.  Retiring from IBM is very good.  Do they still have SEs and FEs?  Or has everyone finally moved to the services side?

[flyboy0681]

57 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Probably doesn’t look the same as it did in 1970.  Retiring from IBM is very good.  Do they still have SEs and FEs?  Or has everyone finally moved to the services side?

RPG is now a "modern" language with built in functions and web service capabilities.

I have been a contract programmer for the past 40 years and never worked for IBM itself.

[shawnd]

Garmin just upped the ante with their web planning software. This was one feature I used extensively with Foreflight. Surely reduces friction when transitioning to Garmin Pilot completely.
 

https://pilotweb.garmin.com/

[hammdo]

Sure looks good. GP has some things I do like. ForeFlight makes it easy though for Jeppesen charts purchase/itegration, no per device charge. I prefer Jepp charts…

-Don

[201Mooniac]

30 minutes ago, hammdo said:

Sure looks good. GP has some things I do like. ForeFlight makes it easy though for Jeppesen charts purchase/itegration, no per device charge. I prefer Jepp charts…

-Don

No problem using Jepp charts with GP either, I've been doing it for many years.  My Jepp subscription includes GP with no per device charge.

[shawnd]

The new Jepp charts subscription for avionics includes 4 mobile devices. 

[PeterRus]

On 4/22/2025 at 7:33 PM, M20F said:

I am writing a flight bag in a mix of 6502 assembler and LISP.  I plan to launch a kick starter later this year.  

God have mercy... 

[varlajo]

22 hours ago, shawnd said:

Garmin just upped the ante with their web planning software.

Looks good, but performance planning does not work at all at this time (does on tablets), graphic editing (drag and drop) is not implemented - again, works on tablets, and there is no option to reverse a flight plan. Good first step though. Ah yes, and no flight tracks, engine data, or logbook. 

Edited April 30 by varlajo

[shawnd]

Guessing that this is on their roadmap. Also no raster chart support yet. 

[shawnd]

Nevermind, I take that back. The Maps and Charts section of the menu is located at the bottom of the menu. I am used that section being at the top in Foreflight and you know the UI here vaguely resembles some other app's UI ... 

[NickG]

On 4/29/2025 at 4:17 PM, shawnd said:

Garmin just upped the ante with their web planning software. This was one feature I used extensively with Foreflight. Surely reduces friction when transitioning to Garmin Pilot completely.
 

https://pilotweb.garmin.com/

Yes, and it’s actually quite good.