M20E-1964 Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 My 64 M20E has a non retractable entry step which always remains down. What would be involved from a legal perspective / practical perspective in having the step removed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 After the M20J was introduced all the Mooneys have fixed steps. Although you may have the agility to step on and off the wing it is not the case for everybody, specially for seniors, children, overweight and handicap. If there is no step most likely they will step on the flap. Why take the risk of having someone falling on the ground and then suing you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 Ours is a 77 J and has no step. Parts catalog says "optional". Ours may be one of the few that doesnt have it. I read somewhere it gives you five knots easy. Perhaps 8 with a good wax job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nels Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 I don't understand why the 201 has the fixed step? I wonder what the actual advantage in knots really is? If five knots is actaully the benefit, I'd be taking it off. A light weight step stool could be carried in the luggage compartment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964-M20E Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 Quote: gmcd My 64 M20E has a non retractable entry step which always remains down. What would be involved from a legal perspective / practical perspective in having the step removed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 I had mine off for chroming, and it doesn't weight but a pound at most, and the 1/16" cable, crank and mounts can't add up to more than a few pounds. If it's retracted or extended in flight you can def feel the acceleration/deceleration ! Same with the vent that opens on top. I don't see the airfoil shaped step causing enough drag to slow you by 5 kts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionudakis Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 The above post is mine. I'd love to own thinwings' bird though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxMike Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 I have owned several 64 E's. The step cranks up. Crank is located next to your left knee. If you have a laser extended baggage area the retractable step has to go. I took mine off when I extended the baggage area. I still have most of the parts if you want to repair the retactable step. Walt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron McBride Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 My 69F has a fixed step. I prefer to have it, it just makes it easier to get in and out of the plane. It probably helps protect the flaps also. My wife is 5' tall, and dealing with a portable step to help her in and out, no thanks. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20E-1964 Posted May 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 From what my poh says, the first 300 or so 64 e models don't have the crank after sn # 300 or so it looks to be vacuum actuated. Just wondering what the real world improvement would be in speed. For the most part, it's only me flying the plane. No pax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxMike Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 gmcd, Best thing to do is to tke a picture of your step and post it. If it is the original step it is costing at least 5mph maybe more. If it was replaced with a later style the cost will be less. It is probably worth the time to take a picture or compare it to another 64 with a step. The 65 models began the vacuum operated step. It was also the year the Brittain wing leveler was started. The crank up step and the vacuum step look the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M016576 Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 5mph for the step??? really??? Sounds like the best speed mod going is removing the thing! Now how do I get it off of my J... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nels Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Quote: M016576 5mph for the step??? really??? Sounds like the best speed mod going is removing the thing! Now how do I get it off of my J... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964-M20E Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 I've flown already with the step down because I forgot to raise it. It will cost you about 5 knots on a model with the retractable step. However, for the models where the step is fixed I'm sure it will not be as much; 2 to 3 knots would be my guess. The fixed steps are more aerodynamic than the retractable steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 It's hard for me to believe that the fixed step can decrease speed by as much as 5 knots. At a time when LoPresti was trying to squeeze out every last knot by looking at the airframe from top to bottom, it seems doing something with the step would have been a no-brainer. If it accounts for so much drag, why aren't we flying around in a Mooney 206? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20E-1964 Posted May 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vref Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Don't have a step neither,it was indeed an option in the early J's. I am happy without it...It's a free speed mod..;-). My previous aircraft was much more difficult to climb in. The wing was twice the height as in the Mooney, you had to use your knees first to climb up to the wing....BTW I am correct the 201 mph was achieved without the step right.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 GMCD, the photos you posted look more like the 201 step. What serial number M20E are they from? I have sn 364, it has the crank down step. It is a much blockier set up and it easily costs anywhere from 3 to 5 kt when down. If I leave it down by accident, my first clue is typically that the ball is slightly out to the left. I agree with other, 201 step is more aerodynamic, so it should be less drag. I would guess it's worth 2 to 3 kt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20E-1964 Posted May 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 My serial number is 260 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Is it possible yours was retrofitted with the 201 step? My parts manual, which covers the B, C, D, and E shows the mechanical crank step apparently going back to the B. These steps have lots of drag because they have a large square tube where the 201 has a small diameter tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20E-1964 Posted May 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 I suppose it's possible. The tube on mine is round. About the diameter of a half-dollar. Theres no crank controls or anything in the cockpit and nothing underneath that looks like it ever had a retractable step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxMike Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 gmcd, That step is from a later model Mooney. Probably costs a couple of knots. It could be removed but loading baggage and passengers a little easier with it in place. The step on my TLS is still in place because loading baggage is a bigger deal with a large baggage area. If you look at the Photo Gallery right now a picture of a step like what was on your is posted within the first 12 pics. Walt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nels Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Quote: takair GMCD, the photos you posted look more like the 201 step. What serial number M20E are they from? I have sn 364, it has the crank down step. It is a much blockier set up and it easily costs anywhere from 3 to 5 kt when down. If I leave it down by accident, my first clue is typically that the ball is slightly out to the left. I agree with other, 201 step is more aerodynamic, so it should be less drag. I would guess it's worth 2 to 3 kt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The201pilot Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 No step on my '77 201... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20E-1964 Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Well, it looks like it's gotta go. I dont load other people into the plane much so I'd rather take the extra few knots. I'll have to do some before / after testing to see what I actually get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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