Oil Seperator... Yes or No?

[BigTex]

I watched a webinar on oil by Mike Busch and he's not a fan of the oil Seperator.  Based on his comments, I am thinking of removing mine.  What everyone's thoughts of these devices?

Thanks,

Gary

[rbridges]

I'd like to find out more about these, too.

[GeorgePerry]

Search function reveals lots of discussion on this topic....Enjoy.

http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=3&threadid=4041

http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=1&threadid=2983

http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=3&threadid=1426

http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=1&threadid=1629

 

 

[Jeff_S]

I bought my Mooney with the oil separator already in place, so I have nothing to compare it to except my prior Cherokee Warrior. I can tell you the Warrior did get a much greasier belly between cleanings. As to Mike Busch's sentiments, I've certainly heard/read them, but here are my facts about oil consumption and quality:

1) I get a good 10-15 hours after an oil change (fill to 7 on the dipstick) before I even need to THINK about putting in oil. Generally once it gets down to a smidge below 6 I'll put in a quart, and usually not again until the next change (~25-35 hours depending on usage and calendar time). Most I've ever had to put in was one extra quart (so, 2 total) between changes.

2) Blackstone has nothing but praise for my oil samples, and nothing that would denote that the oil going back in from the separator is putting "gunk" back into the engine.

 

[pilot716]

We are having the oil seperator installed next week with the new engine, so we will be able to compare from previous. Our mechanic who does not push us to install anything he does not think we need recommended it, especially since we just got the paint job.

[jetdriven]

An easy way is to run it 50 hours and do oil analysis with the TAN (total acid number).  Then remove the separator  and repeat the test in 50 hours.  The detractors of the oil separator say it returns acids to the engine that would normally be blown overboard wth the crankcase gases and oil mist.  I do not feel the people who are against oil separators have proven their point.

[rbridges]

Quote: GeorgePerry

Search function reveals lots of discussion on this topic....Enjoy.

http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=3&threadid=4041

http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=1&threadid=2983

http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=3&threadid=1426

http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=1&threadid=1629

 

 

[M20E-1964]

They do keep the plane cleaner but... Every engine has an oil quantity that it's happy with and will throw overboard some oil if filled to 8 quarts.  With an oil seperator it makes it difficult for the engine to self regulate.

[jetdriven]

Self-regulate?  Can you explain this?

 

[Piloto]

One benefit of the oil separator (M20) that I have seen is that I can top off to 8qts on my IO-360 and it will take 10hrs to come down to 7qts without any discharge on the belly or gear door. I had it on my previous engine before I overhauled at 2100hrs with compressions in the 70s and no oil discharge on the belly.

José

[johnggreen]

GMCD,

I too have always been of the school that most aircraft engines would "throw the first quart out".

Somewhere, recently, I read a technical article on aircraft engines that says that is pure bunk, but aplogize that I don't remember where.

I have and do keep my oil about one quart down from full on all the horozontally opposed engines I have owned.  I never really thought about doing my own "experiement" by keeping it full and monitoring oil consumption.  As I just had the oil changed in the Bravo, I think I will do so now.

The interesting thing is that I don't use that practice in any of the other engines that I own and they certainly don't "throw the first quart out".  All told, in my real estate managaement and ranch equipment, I probably own twenty plus pieces of equipment with water cooled engines, mostly diesel, not including small trucks and cars.

If it is an old wive's tale, then we are losing some, probably not much, temp control and dillution of foreign bodies in our oil by running it low.

At any rate, that's my observation.  It will be a few weeks before I can accumulate enough hours on the Bravo to see if keeping it full affects the oil consumption.  I'll report back.

Jgreen

 

[jetdriven]

Ours for a fact will use 1 quart in 3 hours when kept at 8 qts (full).   between 6-7 quarts its about a quart every 3-4.   Kept between 6 and 6.5 qt its a quart every 8 hours.  We thought when we bought the plane there was a problem with it. There was, we were keeping the oil too full.

FWIW our engine has 1200 SMOH and the hot compressions are 78-74-70-74.

[rbridges]

Quote: jetdriven

Ours for a fact will use 1 quart in 3 hours when kept at 8 qts (full).   between 6-7 quarts its about a quart every 3-4.   Kept between 6 and 6.5 qt its a quart every 8 hours.  We thought when we bought the plane there was a problem with it. There was, we were keeping the oil too full.

FWIW our engine has 1200 SMOH and the hot compressions are 78-74-70-74.

[M20Kid]

I have a Cherokee 140 that will run down to 6 qts quickly and then stay there for several hours.  At oil change I never put in more than 7 qts.

My 231, however, has an air/oil sep (not sure what brand) that is constantly blowing oil all over the belly!  I run about 1 qt every 2 hours and it's all visible on the bottom of the airplane.  I've landed and found my system down to 5 qts.  My mechanic tried to clean the sep with gas and said he got "lots of gunk" to come out but the problem persists.  I don't have any answer yet, just questions ...

[BigTex]

It makes me think that these engines for whatever reason should have a full capacity closer to 6 quarts than 8.  Has anyone seen any kind of SB from Lycoming on this issue?

[takair]

Quote: BigTex

It makes me think that these engines for whatever reason should have a full capacity closer to 6 quarts than 8.

[takair]

Quote: BigTex

It makes me think that these engines for whatever reason should have a full capacity closer to 6 quarts than 8.  Has anyone seen any kind of SB from Lycoming on this issue?

[takair]

Sorry--did not mean "6 qt limit" in the last post.

[Lionudakis]

M20Kid, seperators need to be installed correctly to work correctly, has your mech checked that? An m20 seperator installation instructions is very clear on that. I only brought it up cause I found one installed incorrectly.

[Piloto]

Quote: M20Kid

I have a Cherokee 140 that will run down to 6 qts quickly and then stay there for several hours.  At oil change I never put in more than 7 qts.

My 231, however, has an air/oil sep (not sure what brand) that is constantly blowing oil all over the belly!  I run about 1 qt every 2 hours and it's all visible on the bottom of the airplane.  I've landed and found my system down to 5 qts.  My mechanic tried to clean the sep with gas and said he got "lots of gunk" to come out but the problem persists.  I don't have any answer yet, just questions ...