Dukes Grease - Mix It Yourself, or ?

[ProtoFly]

Seems LASAR is out of stock on the dukes gear actuator grease.  I checked the website, then called - left a message....twice.

Does anyone have any recommendations?  Should I obtain Moly and Aeroshell 7, mix it myself?  Or what are you all doing?

Side note:  Wondering why CV Joint grease wouldn't be a better lube for these?  High molybdenum content, extreme pressure, flows better than 'grease'...

[N201MKTurbo]

I mix my own. I bought a pound of moly powder, it will last me the rest of my life.

[MB65E]

Not wrong to think CV grease would be good. Unsure of the percentage of molybdenum. As a helicopter tech, a lot of Airbus helicopters use g355 NYCO 06 grease. I recently went down the path of “let’s use this.” But it’s a graphite grease and not a molybdenum grease. After additional research, Molybdenum has better properties. 
I was able to grab the molybdenum pouches from an online bike shop and mix them myself with aeroshell 7. Again it’s by volume and not weight. 
I also feel that Aeroshell 64 would be good as well. It was not around when the Mooney AMM was written, but haven’t used it either. 
It’s been covered in certain depths her but the search function isn’t great. 
-Matt

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, ProtoFly said:

Seems LASAR is out of stock on the dukes gear actuator grease.  I checked the website, then called - left a message....twice.

Does anyone have any recommendations?  Should I obtain Moly and Aeroshell 7, mix it myself?  Or what are you all doing?

Side note:  Wondering why CV Joint grease wouldn't be a better lube for these?  High molybdenum content, extreme pressure, flows better than 'grease'...

 

[N201MKTurbo]

You need the proper tools to mix the grease. You will need a Dixie cup and a coffee stir stick.

Take 10 equal scoops of grease with the stir stick and one scoop of moly powder and stir together until it is universally black.

I don't remember if it is 10%, but I look it up before I make it.

[EricJ]

Aeroshell 64 has 5% moly and can be used in the actuator.   That's what I use.   You can mix more moly in if desired.

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

Aeroshell 64 has 5% moly and can be used in the actuator.   That's what I use.   You can mix more moly in if desired.

Who says it can be used?

[PT20J]

Doesn’t the AD reference SB M20-190 which requires 10% moly by volume? I don’t believe there is such a commercial product available. LASAR used to mix it and sell it in small containers - perhaps they still do. 

[EricJ]

3 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Who says it can be used?

The indicated spec is MIL-PRF-23827.   Aeroshell 33 meets MIL-PRF-23827C, and Aeroshell 64 is Aeroshell 33 with 5% moly added.    A caveat is that Aeroshell 7 and Aeroshell 33 are not compatible, so a box that has been lubed with 7 needs to be cleaned out before using 64.

[ProtoFly]

Thanks for all the information.  Seems it's not rocket science....

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

The indicated spec is MIL-PRF-23827.   Aeroshell 33 meets MIL-PRF-23827C, and Aeroshell 64 is Aeroshell 33 with 5% moly added.    A caveat is that Aeroshell 7 and Aeroshell 33 are not compatible, so a box that has been lubed with 7 needs to be cleaned out before using 64.

But the service bulletin says MIL-PRF-23827 mixed with 10% (by vol.) Molybdenum Disulfide. So, wouldn't you still have to mix in 5% moly with AS 33 to meet the spec called out in the AD?

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

But the service bulletin says MIL-PRF-23827 mixed with 10% (by vol.) Molybdenum Disulfide. So, wouldn't you still have to mix in 5% moly with AS 33 to meet the spec called out in the AD?

If you want to be at 10%, you'll need to add some more moly.   If somebody wants to get to 10% and wants a place to start, Aeroshell 33 or Aeroshell 64 are not bad options, and you don't have to add as much to Aeroshell 64.    If you're okay with 5% (my actuator isn't subject to the AD by S/N), then straight Aeroshell 64 may be sufficient so mixing isn't an issue.

[MikeOH]

I've yet to do this, but I have purchased my lifetime supply of moly powder and plan to use Aeroshell 7.  Still need to get the Dixie cup but have a coffee stick somewhere in the kitchen...does Snap-On make a good scoop?

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, MikeOH said:

I've yet to do this, but I have purchased my lifetime supply of moly powder and plan to use Aeroshell 7.  Still need to get the Dixie cup but have a coffee stick somewhere in the kitchen...does Snap-On make a good scoop?

Use the stir stick for the scoop. Don’t make too much. It will dry out or separate after a few years. The grease has a shelf life. You might get 2 applications before the grease gets funky. 

[PT20J]

That's the problem with greases: They are an oil mixed with a thickener and the oil and thickener separate over time if left to sit.

[Bartman]

I bought a couple of 6oz bottles of Molybdenum Disulfide on Amazon, and I have Aeroshell #7.  However, I have been using the mix from LASAR, and in this and the "Let's Talk Lubrication" thread, there is mention of incompatibility.  I need to grease the Dukes Actuator gearbox for the annual, but I don't want to remove the actuator for complete cleaning until summertime when a friend with the landing gear tool will help set preload.

I have read Aeroshell 7, 33, and Lubriplate 630AA with 10% Molybdenum Disulfide in these lubrication threads.  What does LASAR use, and what do you guys use?  I only have plenty of #7 and a dedicated small grease gun for this purpose.

[PT20J]

Aerosnell 7

[N201MKTurbo]

I would caution you about “setting the preloads”. I think that is how most Mooneys get their gear messed up. Unless something was replaced or damaged the preloade shouldn’t change. Use the tools to check the preloads, if the preloads are within range, don’t mess with it. If they are not, you have to figure out what isn’t right. 
 

With the preloads, some people seem to think more is better, this isn’t true. Anywhere in the acceptable rang is good. With all the non-J bar Mooneys, you should be setting the preloads with spring compression and checking them with the tool. If you don’t understand what I just said, you shouldn’t be working on Mooney gear.

[EricJ]

12 hours ago, Bartman said:

I bought a couple of 6oz bottles of Molybdenum Disulfide on Amazon, and I have Aeroshell #7.  However, I have been using the mix from LASAR, and in this and the "Let's Talk Lubrication" thread, there is mention of incompatibility.  I need to grease the Dukes Actuator gearbox for the annual, but I don't want to remove the actuator for complete cleaning until summertime when a friend with the landing gear tool will help set preload.

I have read Aeroshell 7, 33, and Lubriplate 630AA with 10% Molybdenum Disulfide in these lubrication threads.  What does LASAR use, and what do you guys use?  I only have plenty of #7 and a dedicated small grease gun for this purpose.

I use Aeroshell 64, which is Aeroshell 33 with some moly already in it.    The Lubriplate is for the jack screw, not the gears.

[Bartman]

4 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I would caution you about “setting the preloads”. I think that is how most Mooneys get their gear messed up.

I appreciate your caution and understand what you just said well enough to know this is not in my wheelhouse, and I do not intend to do this work, but I like to learn.  That's why I leave this work to a very knowledgeable A+P friend who owns 2 Mooneys and maintains other Mooneys.  He has the necessary tool, has done this many times, and we will perform this work together later this summer.  

For now, we will use the last bit of LASAR grease in my finger pump style mini grease gun for this annual.  I can pull the plunger rod back 1 inch, and that should be enough for now.  The chamber should be sufficiently full as long as grease comes out the top bolt hole.  However, when we remove the actuator to properly service the gears, we should use this as an opportunity to maintain the gear thoroughly.  If the gears look good in Part I, we will continue the instructions in Part II of M20-190B, and this will be my opportunity to start using my personal supply of Aeroshell 7 with 10% Moly.

I can pump a grease gun and do many other things, like change a tire.  For more technical issues, I research and mark the relevant sections of the maintenance and parts manuals, save documents like SB M20-190B, and research on Mooneyspace.  I gather information and the necessary parts and supplies, help with the annual, and learn along the way.  This way, I know the work is done properly, and I don't have to pay the local A+P to do the research.

I am not trying to change the subject, and I am not looking for a reply that will cause thread drift, but yesterday, while replacing brake pads and packing wheel bearings, I found two other issues.  One of the MLG only has 7 of 8 Zerk fittings, and the one on the forward end of the main rod (trunnion ?) is missing.  I'll look it up in the parts manual, but it looks like one that is pressed in.  Might be able to use a rubber-tipped grease nipple for now while I get the correct Zerk.  I also discovered the MLG discs do not expand enough to fill the space when on jacks.  I'm ordering discs today, but looking at prices, I wish I had made that purchase a few years ago.  

THIS is the value I bring by participating in maintaining my aircraft.   Lord discs and other supplies will be here on Wednesday.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, Bartman said:

I am not trying to change the subject, and I am not looking for a reply that will cause thread drift, but yesterday, while replacing brake pads and packing wheel bearings, I found two other issues.  One of the MLG only has 7 of 8 Zerk fittings, and the one on the forward end of the main rod (trunnion ?) is missing.  I'll look it up in the parts manual, but it looks like one that is pressed in.  Might be able to use a rubber-tipped grease nipple for now while I get the correct Zerk.  I also discovered the MLG discs do not expand enough to fill the space when on jacks.  I'm ordering discs today, but looking at prices, I wish I had made that purchase a few years ago.  

FWIW, the disks don't need to expand when on jacks.   The replacement criterion for the main landing gear pucks is that the gap between the retaining collar and the top plate exceeds 0.6" when the weight of the aircraft with full fuel is on the landing gear.   What the discs do when the airplane is on jacks doesn't really matter if your gear safety switch is airspeed based.   This is in the SMM, 32-81-00.

I think you have a good plan to use the rubber tip on the grease gun for the missing zerk, as long as things aren't too gunky in there and it accepts the grease.  I'd suggest getting a replacement zerk in there or something to keep dirt out.

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, Bartman said:

I appreciate your caution and understand what you just said well enough to know this is not in my wheelhouse, and I do not intend to do this work, but I like to learn.  That's why I leave this work to a very knowledgeable A+P friend who owns 2 Mooneys and maintains other Mooneys.  He has the necessary tool, has done this many times, and we will perform this work together later this summer.  

For now, we will use the last bit of LASAR grease in my finger pump style mini grease gun for this annual.  I can pull the plunger rod back 1 inch, and that should be enough for now.  The chamber should be sufficiently full as long as grease comes out the top bolt hole.  However, when we remove the actuator to properly service the gears, we should use this as an opportunity to maintain the gear thoroughly.  If the gears look good in Part I, we will continue the instructions in Part II of M20-190B, and this will be my opportunity to start using my personal supply of Aeroshell 7 with 10% Moly.

I can pump a grease gun and do many other things, like change a tire.  For more technical issues, I research and mark the relevant sections of the maintenance and parts manuals, save documents like SB M20-190B, and research on Mooneyspace.  I gather information and the necessary parts and supplies, help with the annual, and learn along the way.  This way, I know the work is done properly, and I don't have to pay the local A+P to do the research.

I am not trying to change the subject, and I am not looking for a reply that will cause thread drift, but yesterday, while replacing brake pads and packing wheel bearings, I found two other issues.  One of the MLG only has 7 of 8 Zerk fittings, and the one on the forward end of the main rod (trunnion ?) is missing.  I'll look it up in the parts manual, but it looks like one that is pressed in.  Might be able to use a rubber-tipped grease nipple for now while I get the correct Zerk.  I also discovered the MLG discs do not expand enough to fill the space when on jacks.  I'm ordering discs today, but looking at prices, I wish I had made that purchase a few years ago.  

THIS is the value I bring by participating in maintaining my aircraft.   Lord discs and other supplies will be here on Wednesday.

https://www.amazon.com/LockNLube-Narrow-Needle-Dispenser/dp/B0779FK9CZ/ref=asc_df_B0779FK9CZ?mcid=ee996c8b8c8d3518975589deab78bc25&hvocijid=8026372607205017391-B0779FK9CZ-&hvexpln=73&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=730312820598&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8026372607205017391&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030132&hvtargid=pla-2281435180058&psc=1
 

Those zerks are missing a lot. Mine are missing. I tried to replace them and they fall right out. I have found the above adapter does a great job of injecting grease in the hole. It makes the zerk unnecessary.

[PT20J]

That pressed in zerk is a PITA on my plane. I usually have some trouble getting it to take grease. It helps to partially retract the gear and move the wheel up and down slightly while lubing. The fitting is an Alemite 3019. It doesn’t have a checkball because of its small size. Here’s a link with lots of good info about zerks and they sell a tool for setting a new pressed in zerk. https://www.huyett.com/grease-fittings-faqs

[cliffy]

Those zerks get pulled out when  a too tight fitting is used on the grease gun and the mechanic

just yanks the hose off with a little side motion. 

I use an adjustable tension fitting on my grease gun

They are a press in and IIRC a deep 1/4" socket on an extension will help to set them with a small hammer

Also they ae called "ZERK" fitting after their inventor Oscar Zerk who invented them in 1929

[Fly Boomer]

57 minutes ago, cliffy said:

I use an adjustable tension fitting on my grease gun

Instead of the adjustable tension coupler, I have been wanting to try one of these:

https://locknlube.com/products/locknlube-grease-coupler?variant=32586284204116

Any experience with these lock and release types?