What Happens When A Commercial/CFI Rated Pilot "Claims" To FAA That He Put The Mooney Gear Down?.... Full NTSB Investigation!

[1980Mooney]

Final is out on N3777, a 1985 M20K.  The report shows that it was converted by Rocket Engineering to a Rocket 305 with the TSIO-520.  The written Accident Report notes that the plane had just completed Annual after having been idle for a long time.  The last shown flight on FlightAware is in April, 2021. 

On May 3, 2024 the 4,850 hour pilot (75 hours in an M20K) flew the plane for the first time after the Annual as a test flight at Conway Horry, SC (KHYW).  On approach to land he told the investigators that he landed "with both the flaps and landing gear extended".

"A post-accident examination of the airplane revealed minor damage to the nose landing gear door and no damage to the main landing gear doors. The landing gear was subsequently cycled several times using both normal and emergency methods. No evidence of any pre-impact mechanical malfunctions or failures were noted that would have precluded normal operation of the landing gear system. Based on this information, it is most likely that the pilot landed the airplane with the landing gear still retracted."

Probable Cause and Findings
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:
The pilot’s failure to extend the landing gear before landing.

Findings
Aircraft Gear extension and retract sys - Not used/operated
Personnel issues Forgotten action/omission - Pilot

https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/194268/pdf

The steel frame, lower tubular is nearly ground through. You don't usually see that.  He must have landed really hot in order to grind completely through the belly skins.

[EricJ]

It may have been a fiberglass belly, which would likely wear away faster than the aluminum skins.   It's still all repairable, but these days who knows whether it'll fly again or just be a parts supply.

 

[kortopates]

Even if its underinsured, I'll bet some mechanic will be pick it up and have in flying soon. That's not hard to repair as @EricJ said

[1980Mooney]

I bet if the Commercial Pilot/CFI had just told the FAA that "I forgot to put the gear down", that this probably would not have turned into a NTSB Investigation.  It probably would have just been a fleeting posting without any detail in the FAA ASIAS (Preliminary Accident and Incident Reports).  His identity would remain anonymous.  It would be between him and his insurance company.

If any of you have searched the FAA "Accident and Incident Report" database you know that the FAA stopped providing any information after December 2019. 

https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=100:12::::::

There are 3,394 Mooney accidents and incidents in the database from January 1, 1978 to December 31, 2019.  The last Mooney incident listed is December 30, 2019. 

https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=100:18:::NO::AP_BRIEF_RPT_VAR:20191230019769I  There is nothing after that for any brand of GA aircraft.

Instead, everyone now knows he screwed up.  His name is shown in the Accident Report in the NTSB Docket.

[Slick Nick]

How the hell could you get the thing slowed enough on approach without the gear down?

[kortopates]

10 minutes ago, Slick Nick said:

How the hell could you get the thing slowed enough on approach without the gear down?

You'd hope that would be enough but after you have lots of hours in type, its really not difficult at all. Sadly we often see multiple gear up landings per week.

[PeteMc]

Not a Mooney, but I just saw a news story about a CubCrafters (CC11) setting down on the highway in Cupertino, CA.  Remember to be very carful if you talk to reports if you do have an off field landing.  You hear the reporter saying "...and asked the airport to fill the plane up with fuel."  Then they cut to the pilot that says "We don't know what happened, if that happened or it didn't, but clearly I had an engine out." 

Sure **sounds** like he's saying he didn't check the tanks before takeoff.  Maybe he didn't, but if he did and it was some other issue, he now still has to fight the uphill battle after it appears he said on the news that he didn't check the tanks.

  

 

[Hank]

5 hours ago, Slick Nick said:

How the hell could you get the thing slowed enough on approach without the gear down?

That was my learning point, on a curved instrument approach for a highly anticipated trip. I could hold speed and be high, or hold glideslope and be really fast. Finally dropping the gear fixed things.

[PT20J]

The NTSB involvement probably didn't have anything to do with the pilot's statement. The NTSB investigates accidents which definition includes substantial damage. Note that the report lists the aircraft damage as substantial. A similar occurrence happened in June 2022 (Accident number ERA22LA319) where a M20J landed gear up in Charleston, SC due to a broken torsion spring in a Plessey actuator. The damage was classified as substantial because it ground through a structural tube in the belly much like this accident. The report picture of the damaged tube has the caption: "View depicting the damage to a tubular steel truss primary structure which required major repair and classification as an accident."

[midlifeflyer]

11 hours ago, PT20J said:

The NTSB involvement probably didn't have anything to do with the pilot's statement. The NTSB investigates accidents which definition includes substantial damage. Note that the report lists the aircraft damage as substantial. A similar occurrence happened in June 2022 (Accident number ERA22LA319) where a M20J landed gear up in Charleston, SC due to a broken torsion spring in a Plessey actuator. The damage was classified as substantial because it ground through a structural tube in the belly much like this accident. The report picture of the damaged tube has the caption: "View depicting the damage to a tubular steel truss primary structure which required major repair and classification as an accident."

I can see it both ways. Enough damage to get an accident classification, but I suspect there are plenty of gear-ups like that which never make it to the NTSB because they are (ho hum, snooze) just another gear up. But when the pilot says they lowered the gear, it could take it out of the ordinary and into a safety investigation of “why did the gear collapse?”

(I knew a pilot - also a CFI - who had a gear up sitting on the ramp. Initially claimed it happened on its own but came clean a few days later.)

[kortopates]

True story, a relatively new pilot getting checked out in an arrow without any prior retract time wanted to check out the safety features he read about the gear not coming up on the ground due squat switch (or whatever it uses) so to make sure this was working on his pre-flight he moved gear lever to the up position. Oops - Test failed! Now it had several squawks!


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[Hank]

29 minutes ago, kortopates said:

True story, a relatively new pilot getting checked out in an arrow without any prior retract time wanted to check out the safety features he read about the gear not coming up on the ground due squat switch (or whatever it uses) so to make sure this was working on his pre-flight he moved gear lever to the up position. Oops - Test failed! Now it had several squawks!

That would be a "touch and don't go," right?

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

That would be a "touch and don't go," right?

I think the FBO considered it a touch, and go, and DO NOT COME BACK!

[A64Pilot]

On 11/5/2024 at 6:11 PM, Slick Nick said:

How the hell could you get the thing slowed enough on approach without the gear down?

I don’t drop my gear until I’m in the white arc, it’s not at all hard to get a Mooney slowed down, once you understand that one doesn’t go down AND slow down in a Mooney very well. It as simple as you start slowing sooner is all. Back in school getting my Commercial / instrument fixed wing in I think 89 I was taught to get approach flaps before gear. The school taught that way because apparently in larger Commercial aircraft flaps come first so they taught flaps first. It was a little challenging on ILS’s etc until you learned to slow well before glide slope intercept, but once learned it just became the norm

Anyway if you wait until your below 111 kts to drop the gear it doesn’t make a whole lot of difference in drag. There is some just not as drastic.

As an A&P/IA I’m convinced that if you don’t drop gear and flaps as soon as you hit the max extension speed, that things will last longer. I never have understood why pilots are taught to drop the gear at max allowable speed every time.

Truth is my airplane is an antique, and parts are getting hard to find, so I tend to back off the maximums. Does anyone climb at near redline cyl head temps?

Edited November 8 by A64Pilot

[kortopates]

5 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

I don’t drop my gear until I’m in the white arc, it’s not at all hard to get a Mooney slowed down, once you understand that one doesn’t go down AND slow down in a Mooney very well. It as simple as you start slowing sooner is all.

Anyway if you wait until your below 111 kts to drop the gear it doesn’t make a whole lot of difference. There is some just not as drastic.

As an A&P/IA I’m convinced that if you don’t drop gear and flaps as soon as you hit the max extension speed, that things will last longer. I never have understood why pilots are taught to drop the gear at max allowable speed every time.

As the maintainer and the primary financer of my Mooney, I couldn't agree more with this. 

[RescueMunchkin]

Is there a significant difference in the volume of the gear up alarm between planes and model years?  I find it so annoying that I sometimes put the gear down early coming into the pattern just to stop the noise.

[kortopates]

All mooney’s use the same Sonalerts PN’s till the G1000 provided voice alerts.

Sounds like (pardon the pun) your throttle switch is coming on with to high of a manifold pressure. you can check what your service manual says, it varies by model but i recall 16-17” (but wouldn’t trust that). But suggest checking yours to the spec and having it adjusted if it’s set too high.
Reducing the volume sounds like a bad idea - it’s supposed to be annoying enough to prevent gear up landings but fails miserably.

these days there are better technology aides including the new LHS.


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[RescueMunchkin]

I think my point is that I don't understand how gear ups can happen with the alarm blaring that loudly.  I have to pull my power much lower than 16" MP to get my plane slowed down enough for the 94mph gear extension speed and stay at TPA - I don't have a switch adjustment issue.

[EricJ]

5 minutes ago, RescueMunchkin said:

I think my point is that I don't understand how gear ups can happen with the alarm blaring that loudly.  I have to pull my power much lower than 16" MP to get my plane slowed down enough for the 94mph gear extension speed and stay at TPA - I don't have a switch adjustment issue.

Under certain circumstance the brain just filters out stuff that it doesn't think necessary for whatever task it is doing, especially as the task saturation level increases, which is why distractions are an issue.    Background audio can get filtered out pretty thoroughly.  You're not even conscious of it happening, so it's a bit insidious.   

[Igor_U]

2 hours ago, RescueMunchkin said:

I think my point is that I don't understand how gear ups can happen with the alarm blaring that loudly. 

 

Because the horn is so loud that pilot can't think to lower the gear.  

[A64Pilot]

17 hours ago, RescueMunchkin said:

I think my point is that I don't understand how gear ups can happen with the alarm blaring that loudly.  I have to pull my power much lower than 16" MP to get my plane slowed down enough for the 94mph gear extension speed and stay at TPA - I don't have a switch adjustment issue.

I promise you that if something else is going on, you will / may ignore annoying noises in order to concentrate on what your doing, it may be as simple as having a conversation with someone to get you to ignore it. I’m sure there is a name for this ability we have that allows us to focus on the task at hand but I have no idea what it’s called.

In my opinion whatever this is called is a VERY good reason why the sterile cockpit should be the norm in phases other than cruise

[A64Pilot]

17 hours ago, RescueMunchkin said:

I think my point is that I don't understand how gear ups can happen with the alarm blaring that loudly.  I have to pull my power much lower than 16" MP to get my plane slowed down enough for the 94mph gear extension speed and stay at TPA - I don't have a switch adjustment issue.

You really don’t I promise you. A trick that I use to slow down is to reduce power to just above the horn, descend to 100 ft or so below pattern altitude, then slowly climb back to pattern altitude, even converting kinetic energy to just 100 ft of potential energy really slows you down, then I lower the gear and increase power to 20” (I have a restriction between 15 and 20 inches). Yes I’m sure that adds a minute or two to landing as I’m slower in the pattern, but what’s another minute or two?

Land gear up and besides the money, your out of an airplane for very likely a year. Faced with that I can understand why some want the insurence to pay out so they can buy another airplane.

Personally I like to get the gear at pattern entry not in the pattern in the belief that once in the pattern other things may have me forget them.

My Wife often flies with me, she has been briefed that her one job is to make sure I don’t forget the gear

Edited November 9 by A64Pilot

[Greg Ellis]

19 hours ago, RescueMunchkin said:

I think my point is that I don't understand how gear ups can happen with the alarm blaring that loudly.  I have to pull my power much lower than 16" MP to get my plane slowed down enough for the 94mph gear extension speed and stay at TPA - I don't have a switch adjustment issue.

Here’s two examples both with the gear horns blaring away and completely ignored.

[C.J.]

On 11/8/2024 at 10:30 AM, A64Pilot said:

I never have understood why pilots are taught to drop the gear at max allowable speed every time.

Where is this being taught? That was not my experience, but I've been out of the G.A. training world for decades. Training in 74 -78, flaps before gear with at least 10 knots below Vfe & Vle was emphasized. Upon graduation as a newly minted CFI, I taught exactly that & didn't change my methods as a Part 135 check airman or Part 121 sim instructor.

[RescueMunchkin]

6 hours ago, Greg Ellis said:

Here’s two examples both with the gear horns blaring away and completely ignored.

Those are pretty sad. But I find my gear warning to be much more obnoxious than both of those. The cessna's warning seems like it's too pleasant. 

That's why my initial question was whether different model mooneys had different alarms.  I don't remember the G I trained in being as awful as the alarm in my plane.