Deciphering the M20J Differences

[Jeff_S]

Hello all,

I'm new to the Forum and am seriously looking at some variant of an M20J as a step-up from my Warrior. I've studied several sources, including the Aviation Consumer write-up on the M20J series and sniffing around in here so this has already been a helpful place. But here's where I'd like your expertise; are there some basic "rules of thumb" I can use to help evaluate the differences introduced in the various model years, so that I can more easily evaluate planes as they come up?

For example, in the Piper world there are basic differences in engine, wing style (Hershey-bar vs. tapered), body length, etc. between the Cherokees so I've gotten pretty good at quickly evaluating planes. I'd like to get better at this with Mooneys, especially the M20J variants.

If there's already a good article on this, feel free just to point me to it. Thanks in advance for the help!

Jeff

[LFOD]

This should help. 

 

http://www.mooneyevents.com/chrono.htm

[KSMooniac]

Jeff,

There are some articles scattered about, but I don't have the links handy right now unfortunately.  For a pure valuation estimate of the different years, you should look up Jimmy Garrison's articles in the MAPA Log.

The airframes are common all the way through the lineage, so there are no major differences with wing style, engines, etc.  Somewhere around the 1988 timeframe (I think) the gross weight was eligible to be increased to 2900 lbs from 2740 lbs, which helped recover some lost useful load from years of weight gain.  That is perhaps the biggest difference.

Otherwise, there are some minor changes over the years.  First year was 1977, and it had a throttle quadrant, different landing gear motor & backup system, and square-tipped McCauley prop.  1978 went to push-pull/vernier engine controls and a round-tipped McCauley prop, which was an improvement.  In the 82-84 timeframe most of the rest of the "niceties" were added, such as the one-piece fiberglass belly pan, fiberglass wing tips, better dorsal fin & ventilation, and split/folding/removable rear seats, etc.  Around 87 or 88 the rounded windows were used, which are purely cosmetic.  I think in the mid 90s the IO-360-A3B6D engine with the infamous dual mag went to the -A3B6 with independent mags.  Generally speaking, 84+ have most of the desirable features.  Later models also got fully articulating front seats vs. the simple sliders/recliners of the earlier models.  The non-D engine can be substituted to any M20J airframe but it usually has an up-charge on the exchange. All of the later model aero features can be retrofitted as well.

Avionics-wise, by now many/most have gone through panel changes.  The later the airframe, the more likely it is to have a full King stack including HSI, autopilot and perhaps a flight director AI as part of the system from the factory.  Earlier models were simpler.  You should look for one configured like you want IMO vs. planning to upgrade since upgrades only return ~50% of the cost at resale.  At a minimum you should aim for one with a Garmin 430W and/or 530W or a 480. 

Generally speaking, I would not get hung up on airframe year and buy the best example you can afford.  Once you look at a bunch of ads, you'll end up with your own feature/priority wish list and how much each feature is worth to you.  I originally went hunting for a modified M20E or F, but stretched to get my '77 J and couldn't entertain a later model at the time due to budget.  I would love to have the split/removable rear seats and a one-piece belly, and plan to add those to my plane.  I got an STEC-30 autopilot that I think is cheaper, simpler, and more reliable than the fancier King autopilots of the 80s/90s so that was a bonus for me.  I would prefer the 78+ engine controls vs. my throttle quadrant, but it wasn't a show-stopper either.  I would also prefer the later McCauley prop, but might upgrade to an MT instead.  I would also avoid any plane with a 3-blade metal prop as they are heavier, slower, and often have unsolvable vibration issues with 4-cyl Lycoming engines.  You should also pay close attention to the actual useful load of each candidate airplane, as they can vary quite a bit, so figure out your mission requirements and see how much payload & fuel you'll need.

That is about all I can think of off the top of my head, so I hope that helps.  Fire away with any more questions too.

Scott

 

[Jeff_S]

Good stuff...thanks guys. Scott, I grew up in Wichita but left right after high school and hadn't really been back since (early '80s). But I took the Warrior on a long x-country this summer and stopped into Jabara to spend the night and see some old friends. It was amazing to see how much things have changed since I left. But I could still make my way around pretty easily.

[FlyDave]

Jeff,

Here is a spreadsheet listing many of the model changes year by year:

www.mooneyevents.com/201hist.xls

Good luck in your search. I'm looking as well - it's fun and frustrating at the same time. But when I finally find a plane, I don't think there will be too many things more satisfying in my life.

 

 

 

[KSMooniac]

Jim, I concur with your items from memory too. 

Jeff, Wichita has grown and changed quite a bit (for the better!) in the 12 years I've been here.  I hangar at Jabara, too.

Your purchase budget will obviously be the biggest factor in which J you can get, but the good news is that there are several parameters that you can "trade" within a given budget to find one that meets your wish list.  For instance, if you want one of the later models (say 88+) you might be able to find one with higher airframe time that costs the same as an early model with lower airframe time, so you end up buying "more" features on the same budget.  I and many others are of the opinion that high airframe time is no problem on a Mooney as long as the MX was good.  (There are some threads here on the subject)  The last of the models (mid 90s+) are still priced much higher and I expect they are still depreciating, so that may or may not bother you.  They don't really do anything "better" than the earlier ones, but they will likely look nicer and have more OEM equipment. 

If your budget will support it, I would aim for an 84+ and place a priority on good airframe history/MX, modernized panel with 430W or better, good autopilot, and then good cosmetics in that priority order.    I agree with Dave's post above...once you get a good one it will be *extremely* satisfying!  There is no finer personal ship than a Mooney for fast & efficient transportation at minimal cost!  Mine has been a dream for almost 3 years now.

[Jeff_S]

Scott, that sounds about right. As I review the spreadsheet of changes (excellent reference, BTW) it seems like a mid-80's model that's been well maintained and maybe has a few upgrades would be just the right value. The problem I see with the mid-90s that I've scanned on TAP and other sources is that yes, the price is still higher, and yet  I would likely still want to do some panel upgrades to bring them into the glass age. If I can find a mid-80's model that at least has a 430W as a foundation radio, I can build that up with one of the new glass  and a/p options as necessary and still not pay what the later models are asking.

BTW, anybody have comments on All American Aircraft Sales? They seem to have a stable of aircraft that they're fixing up and trying to sell at a higher price with the mods. I know a few outfits in the Piper world that do this and are really just slapping lipstick on a pig and trying to make a buck. Is All American a reputable shop?

[LFOD]

Quote: Jeff_S

BTW, anybody have comments on All American Aircraft Sales? They seem to have a stable of aircraft that they're fixing up and trying to sell at a higher price with the mods. I know a few outfits in the Piper world that do this and are really just slapping lipstick on a pig and trying to make a buck. Is All American a reputable shop?

[fantom]

All American is first rate, and enjoys a well earned reputation in the Mooney commnity.

[Rustler]

Jeff_S--

Like many others on this group, I purchased my '80 M20J from All American and was very satisfied with the purchase process and the airplane. Jimmy Garrison, in my opinion, is as good as they get--honest, straight forward, and extremely knowledgeable about his product. Also, I didn't notice them adding "lipstick." I think they fix things they see that require remedy, but they know that one rarely gets his money back from cosmetic additions in the aircraft market.  Don't get me wrong, they'll "deal" with you if you want something on an airplane that isn't on it when you first see it, but that's the business; I had that experience with them and did well. If you have a solid trade, they'll entertain  that, too.

If I want to move up the Mooney ladder in the future, I'll check with them first.

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

I looked at a couple planes at All American Aircraft and Jimmy seemed honest to me, pointing out some squawks that would need to be taken care of in the future.

I've approached him about a few other airplanes for 3 other potential buyers and he's good about giving me the the information that I'd want to know to bring back to those buyers.  I do recommend Don Maxwell Aviation in Longview for a pre-buy/annual inspection.

[Jeff_S]

Thanks for the PIREPs on All American.  Glad to know they have a good rep, as I think I have three of their planes in my "favorites" section on TAP and Controller. Maybe it's time for me to start making some calls!

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: Jeff_S

Thanks for the PIREPs on All American.  Glad to know they have a good rep, as I think I have three of their planes in my "favorites" section on TAP and Controller. Maybe it's time for me to start making some calls!

[FlyingAggie]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

Give me a ring if you need any help with the logistics when you get serious on a plane (ferry, insurance checkout, etc.).  I've got several free weekends coming up and I can make weekday afternoon/evening trips if necessary should you need the help.

I'll send you a PM with my info.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: FlyingAggie

Parker,

Have you completed your CFI?

Alan