IPad for EFB? (poll)

[201er]

Most of us use iPads for running electronic flight bag software (mostly foreflight). I’m curious just how many use iPad vs something else. Who uses an alternative, what, and why? If you use more than one, vote based on what you use primarily for things like viewing a sectional, approach chart, or taxi diagram?

Also, what do you mainly use for VFR navigation? The panel mount, iPad, or fully old school?

Edited September 20 by 201er

[201er]

I’ve been using iPad since around 2011 but I did use a sort of laptop with a flip over touch screen before that. EFB has fully replaced paper charts for me but I still use the panel mount GPS entirely for IFR and VFR navigation. EFB is for charts and situational awareness only.

[LANCECASPER]

Garmin Aera 760 & iPhone Pro Max

[EricJ]

Android tablets are very popular and aren't even a selection on the poll.    

[toto]

I used a series of Android tablets and really preferred them to the iPad, but I ended up buying an iPad because the software options were better. I was running Garmin Pilot on Android, and it never had feature parity with the iPad version (often months or years behind). WingX I could never get my head around (despite the free version for CFIs) and Avare is awesome but limited. 

So now I’m using an iPad and holding my nose at the crummy hardware because the software is much better. Running latest Garmin Pilot and pretty happy with it. 

[toto]

Also … I definitely use an iPad as an EFB, not as a primary reference for anything. The screen is normally turned off unless I’m actively looking at it for something. I never use it for navigation.

I do love having telemetry via Garmin EIS to capture flight and engine data in Garmin Pilot. That alone is worth the price of admission for me. 

[201er]

2 hours ago, EricJ said:

Android tablets are very popular and aren't even a selection on the poll.    

Didn’t even realize that was a thing, I added to the list.

[midlifeflyer]

3 hours ago, 201er said:

Didn’t even realize that was a thing, I added to the list.

The Android tablet has only been around for a dozen years or so. (Edit: 14 years next month, but there was no EFB for it for quite a few years)

Since you asked “primary” it’s iPad for me. But my backup is an Android phone.

[Hank]

6 hours ago, EricJ said:

Android tablets are very popular and aren't even a selection on the poll.    

 

4 hours ago, 201er said:

Didn’t even realize that was a thing, I added to the list.

I remember back when I had an iPad. To get a GPS chip, I had to buy the cellular model, $689. Since then (gave it up ~2016), I think I'm on my 4th Samsung tablet--all wifi only, all with GPS chips, and I haven't spent that much combined.

Aware is free; you can download any form of data for free--WACs, Sectionals, Low & High Enroutes; Approach plates, rtc.; and after several years I've about got it figured out; the approach plates are geo-referenced; and it automatically switches to geo-referenced airport diagram when you land. 

I've also had three company iPhones--4, 5 & 7. None were as good or as flexible as my Galaxy 3 . . . But the 7 was notably better than the 5.

Looks like my fellow fliers have all drunk the Kool-Aid so deeply that they don't even know anyone else makes a tablet . . . So sad. But I'm not overpaying for substandard "brand-name" equipment any more.

[toto]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Looks like my fellow fliers have all drunk the Kool-Aid so deeply that they don't even know anyone else makes a tablet . . . So sad. But I'm not overpaying for substandard "brand-name" equipment any more.

The software limitations are real. If ForeFlight supported Android, you’d see a ton of flyers out there with an Android tablet. 

ForeFlight was saying for years that they were working on an Android release, and that Android support was “coming soon” .. but they quietly dropped the Android plan somewhere along the way, and the rest was history. 

I really wanted to be able to use Garmin Pilot on an Android tablet, but I got frustrated at the lack of feature parity, and I had a candid conversation with a Garmin support engineer who basically told me that they would never be releasing the latest features on Android - so I threw in the towel. 

Putting the GPS and the cellular chip together is annoying, but nothing new for Apple. Don’t get me started on expandable memory via SD card. Charging $200 for about $4 worth of flash memory should be an Apple trademark. 

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, toto said:

The software limitations are real. If ForeFlight supported Android, you’d see a ton of flyers out there with an Android tablet. 

ForeFlight was saying for years that they were working on an Android release, and that Android support was “coming soon” .. but they quietly dropped the Android plan somewhere along the way, and the rest was history. 

Interesting. I have been using ForeFlight for almost 14 years and I have never heard them say they were working on an Android release. WingX, yes (and they eventually came out with their cripplewear version), but I've never heard anything from FF other than, "no." I'm not sure they even talked about Android for the "Foreflight Mobile" Foreflight weather app. 

At first, it because of the wide variety of Android implementations. Even today, Garmin Pilot says there are a few Androids they don't support. But that's not a limitation of the operating system itself. There are cutting edge mission-critical medical devices which run on Android and not iOS (one of them is finally talking about an iOS version) . 

But later, I think for ForeFlight, it became a combination of  things. I'm sure some of it is preferring the closed development environment of iOS. But also simple market economics. When the EFB revolution started there was no viable Android tablet, so iOS got a huge market share head start. And Foreflight was there from the beginning. Foreflight on iOS has the biggest market share. Basically, they don't need to.

 

[McMooney]

Garmin Pilot on my samsung galaxy tab s8 was my favorite,  the screen was head and shoulders above the ipad, it never overheated and came with an inbuilt gps by default, no cellular however.  the software was a smidge behind the ipad version but it was really stuff i never bother using anyway.   Unfortunately, it was stolen and the replacement was MORE expensive than the ipad, so now i run an ipad mini6 and an ipad air.

also movies while flying looked better on the galaxy tab, i think it may have been brighter than the ipad at time.

[midlifeflyer]

50 minutes ago, McMooney said:

the software was a smidge behind the ipad version

These days, it's far more than a smidge. Maybe more like a gob. Maybe even a dollop. But it's enough for the basics. 

[toto]

1 hour ago, midlifeflyer said:

Interesting. I have been using ForeFlight for almost 14 years and I have never heard them say they were working on an Android release. WingX, yes (and they eventually came out with their cripplewear version), but I've never heard anything from FF other than, "no." I'm not sure they even talked about Android for the "Foreflight Mobile" Foreflight weather app. 

At first, it because of the wide variety of Android implementations. Even today, Garmin Pilot says there are a few Androids they don't support. But that's not a limitation of the operating system itself. There are cutting edge mission-critical medical devices which run on Android and not iOS (one of them is finally talking about an iOS version) . 

But later, I think for ForeFlight, it became a combination of  things. I'm sure some of it is preferring the closed development environment of iOS. But also simple market economics. When the EFB revolution started there was no viable Android tablet, so iOS got a huge market share head start. And Foreflight was there from the beginning. Foreflight on iOS has the biggest market share. Basically, they don't need to.

 

If I remember correctly, the original ForeFlight Weather app was available on Android before iOS, and they supported Android for the life of the product.  When ForeFlight introduced ForeFlight Mobile, there was a lot of discussion about the migration path from ForeFlight Weather to ForeFlight Mobile, and Android users in particular were concerned about the future.  ForeFlight sent a lot of reassuring email announcements in the early years after the iPad was introduced, saying that they were hard at work on Android support for the Mobile product, and that ForeFlight Weather would become ForeFlight Mobile for Android at some point.  But ForeFlight Weather stayed around only as an Android app until it was finally decommissioned sometime in the mid 2010s.

As you said, I'm sure the market just wasn't there for multi-platform support.  I started using Garmin Pilot explicitly because I preferred an Android tablet, and I thought GP was the best full-featured EFB out there for Android.  But Garmin admitted to me more than once that trying to stay compatible with a huge number of different manufacturers, with different processors, screen resolutions and dimensions was a massive effort, and that the Android product would always lag the iOS product as a result.

My last Android tablet before moving to an iPad was a Huawei MediaPad, and it was awesome.

[toto]

3 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

These days, it's far more than a smidge. Maybe more like a gob. Maybe even a dollop. But it's enough for the basics. 

When I jumped ship from Garmin Pilot on Android to Garmin Pilot on iPad, the software was three major releases behind.  Blech.

[midlifeflyer]

26 minutes ago, toto said:

If I remember correctly, the original ForeFlight Weather app was available on Android before iOS, and they supported Android for the life of the product.  When ForeFlight introduced ForeFlight Mobile, there was a lot of discussion about the migration path from ForeFlight Weather to ForeFlight Mobile, and Android users in particular were concerned about the future.  ForeFlight sent a lot of reassuring email announcements in the early years after the iPad was introduced, saying that they were hard at work on Android support for the Mobile product, and that ForeFlight Weather would become ForeFlight Mobile for Android at some point.  But ForeFlight Weather stayed around only as an Android app until it was finally decommissioned sometime in the mid 2010s.

As you said, I'm sure the market just wasn't there for multi-platform support.  I started using Garmin Pilot explicitly because I preferred an Android tablet, and I thought GP was the best full-featured EFB out there for Android.  But Garmin admitted to me more than once that trying to stay compatible with a huge number of different manufacturers, with different processors, screen resolutions and dimensions was a massive effort, and that the Android product would always lag the iOS product as a result.

My last Android tablet before moving to an iPad was a Huawei MediaPad, and it was awesome.

My path was slightly different. I was a beta tester for ForeFlight Weather on Windows. I don't even recall it being available for Android.

 

When Foreflight Mobile was introduced for the iPhone in 2008, I wasn't interested since I didn't have an iPhone. Sometime in 2010, I was visiting my brother in law in another state and met up with a friend who was using the new iPad version and was impressed. But being an Android user, I was waiting for that Android tablet. In early January, 2011, I went to a seminar where they showed ForeFlight and WingX.

Deciding not to wait any longer, I ordered an iPad that afternoon and ForeFlight as soon as it arrived.

 

[Andy95W]

9 hours ago, Hank said:

 

Looks like my fellow fliers have all drunk the Kool-Aid so deeply that they don't even know anyone else makes a tablet . . . So sad. But I'm not overpaying for substandard "brand-name" equipment any more.

Only because it’s better Kool-Aid, at least to me.  The operating systems just “fit” my brain better than Android/Microsoft.

One of my happiest days was when I changed all of my electronics to Apple: iPhone, iPad, and MacBook. Everything just works.  I no longer have to spend frustrating hours getting my devices to work correctly.

To each their own, Hank.  I’m glad you’ve found a solution that satisfies you.

(Edited to remove cynical comments.)

Edited September 20 by Andy95W

[midlifeflyer]

12 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Only because it’s better Kool-Aid.  I’ll take quality over cheap any day.

I love "my choices are great; yours suck" posts. So very American.

[Rick Junkin]

With my original 6-pack panel I used Foreflight on an iPad Mini for flight planning/briefing and extensively in the cockpit for EFB functions and general SA. The iPad was my primary source for ADS-B data products, flight plan modifications, airport information, approach plates, and note taking. Foreflight worked awesome with a Flightstream 210 connected to a GNS 430W and was my front end for everything.

After I was able to upgrade my panel I focused on exploiting the capabilities of the panel avionics and weening myself off the iPad for the most part. Now I do my flight planning/briefing with Foreflight on an iPad Mini or my iPhone. I carry the mini in the cockpit for ready reference to electronic documents like pilot guides and POH/supplements, but I use my iPhone in a MyGoFlight mini articulating suction mount high on the pilot side window for flight plan transfer from Foreflight to my GTN and for note taking. I'm left handed so that location works well for me. I'll reference Foreflight data on the iPhone occasionally, but prefer to use the PFD in split screen for map/chart and ADS-B/SXM weather and traffic, approach plates, and airport information, augmented with the MFD on the right side of the panel. Once the flight plan is loaded to the panel, Foreflight on the iPhone/iPad becomes my tertiary backup for EFB functions.

[Andy95W]

27 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

I love "my choices are great; yours suck" posts. So very American.

Honestly, I’m not sure if you’re referring to my post or Hank’s.  Like I said, I’m glad he found a solution that works for him.  I’m glad that there’s competition out there, and that folks are happy with their choices.  For one thing, it keeps Apple from charging even more $$ for their products.

I feel exactly the same about avionics.  Avidyne, Trig, Aspen, and even Bendix/King keep Garmin honest and improving.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, toto said:

As you said, I'm sure the market just wasn't there for multi-platform support.  I started using Garmin Pilot explicitly because I preferred an Android tablet, and I thought GP was the best full-featured EFB out there for Android.  But Garmin admitted to me more than once that trying to stay compatible with a huge number of different manufacturers, with different processors, screen resolutions and dimensions was a massive effort, and that the Android product would always lag the iOS product as a result.

There's a weird thing going on right now in that some of the software development tools have (supposedly) gotten good enough to make multi-platform migration much less of an issue now than it used to be.    We'll see how it plays out, but it may be becoming easier for developers to support multiple platforms.

This is directly affecting Avare, which I used and liked a lot for many years, and has historically been an Android-only app.    The developer of Avare decided to jump on the multi-platform bandwagon and has now deprecated Avare in favor of a brand-new, multi-platform product called AvareX.   They've also taken the opportunity to redesign the look and operation of most of the user interfaces, and, imho, they've got a long way to go to make it as usable as the original Avare app was.   It is running on Android, iOS, and Windows, and they're still making changes to "improve" things, but I find it unusable in its current form.   Maybe they'll get there and there will be a genuinely good free multi-platform EFB, but from my perspective it ain't there yet and has a long way to go.    Whether it really works well or creates more headaches for the support of the various hardware platforms also remains to be seen.

Meanwhile, I switched to iFly since a buddy I fly with a lot has been using it for years and loves it.   It is subscription based but is very good and is currently multi-platform and supports Android (yay), iOS, and Windows.    Some of the user interface is clunkier than the old Avare was, some of it is better, overall I would have preferred to just continue using Avare.    I think once my iFly subscription is up I'll try Garmin Pilot on Android and see if there's a personal preference between them.

I retired early partially thanks to Apple stock, so all you Android haters please do continue to purchase many Apple products and update them frequently.    Meanwhile, I remain an Android-only tablet and phone user guy.   

 

[wombat]

I've used ForeFlight and WingX both extensively. There are also other offerings (Garmin Pilot, etc)  Most are absolutely amazing products that raise situational awareness in the cockpit by huge amounts.  

There are differences between them in requirements, cost, and capabilities.

ForeFlight seems to be more popular than WingX and Garmin and others, but they all have their place.   There is even a place for "I only use paper charts and VORs & ILSs"

[Pinecone]

iPad Mini for my EFB.  I mainly run FF, but have GP installed, mainly for the Database Concierge. 

I run the iPad all the time, even with a G3X and 750.  Another screen.  I can have different ranges called up to monitor weather closer and further.  Different view of the area.

[Fly Boomer]

3 hours ago, EricJ said:

 It is running on Android, iOS, and Windows, and they're still making changes to "improve" things, but I find it unusable in its current form. 

There have been multi-platform development tools in the past, but my understanding was that just getting something to work on a few versions of Android could be a nightmare.  We use "Android" in the same context as "iPadOS", but every company running Android on their devices "tweaks" the basic operating system to fit their platform.  With Apple, you can develop a product like ForeFlight with only minor differences between iPhone and iPad, without all the differences in hardware AND software.  I think that if you dominate a market sector like ForeFlight does, you can get away with setting platform requirements, own a large chunk of the market sector, and not be concerned with the leftovers.

[EricJ]

23 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

There have been multi-platform development tools in the past, but my understanding was that just getting something to work on a few versions of Android could be a nightmare.  We use "Android" in the same context as "iPadOS", but every company running Android on their devices "tweaks" the basic operating system to fit their platform.  With Apple, you can develop a product like ForeFlight with only minor differences between iPhone and iPad, without all the differences in hardware AND software.  I think that if you dominate a market sector like ForeFlight does, you can get away with setting platform requirements, own a large chunk of the market sector, and not be concerned with the leftovers.

There seem to be small issues here and there and little differences, but in general the Android EFBs seem to work well on various Android models.    I use Samsung Galaxys and haven't had any trouble, but other people I know use various flavors of Android hardware and I've not heard too many complaints.   You do occassionally see device-specific issues pop up on the Avare forum, but it doesn't seem to be too big of a deal.    The tablet vendors want people to be able to download apps from Google Play and they just work, so there's motivation to not screw things up too badly.   I can't recall ever having an issue with an app not working on the Galaxies (over about ten years or so).