Help pick my avionics

[Max Clark]

On 8/22/2024 at 1:14 PM, 201Mooniac said:

A couple of comments that are mostly just my opinion so not worth anything except to me...

1. I think the main differences between the G500 TXi and the G3X is the display is a newer technology and looks better on the G500 TXi and there is much better interconnect available of the G500 TXi, mostly to benefit legacy equipment.  If you aren't trying to connect to legacy equipment, the cost savings of the G3x is likely the determining factor.  Just for reference, I have the G500 TXi and GI 275 standby and EIS.

2. I went from an EDM to the GI 275 EIS and am very happy with the display and functionality.  I especially like that the engine data automatically uploads to GP and the Garmin website so I can easily review the data.

I'm sure you will be happy with any of your choices, these are all good options.

Do you have a dedicated 275 for EIS or do you use that as your standby as well?

[Max Clark]

On 8/22/2024 at 6:06 PM, Danb said:

Just for curiosity what range of cost does a complete first class panel run, Don K’s, Terry,s and a few other including Chris’s F model come to mind as being first class 

D 

You might not want to know...

[Pinecone]

I did remote transponder.  I stayed with a panel mount audio panel.  1)  I wanted the PS Engineering 450B and 2) having the remote audio panel takes up screen space on other avionics.

I do use it.  If things are clear, it is on the SWM page for changing music channels.   Otherwise, is use it for weather, with the range set very high (100 - 200 miles) for longer range planning.

[Max Clark]

On 8/23/2024 at 6:17 AM, Z W said:

We have a G500TXi/GTN650xi/GNC355/G5/GFC500/FS510.  It works great and there's not anything I'd change.  A GTN750 didn't seem worth the extra cost and panel space, and neither did a stand-alone dedicated engine monitor or a MFD.  

I'd rather have 2 GPS and 1 nav than 2 nav and 1 GPS, but that's a preference.  Just about everything has a backup. 

Flight plans push from a phone to the panel and back, and everything updates either through Garmin Pilot wirelessly or by a single SD card in the GTN650.  Very easy to use and maintain.

 

The 750 has a lot of real estate, looks like a nice interface for management. With the 540 I have now, it's feels like it would fill most of the MFD functionality

Can you use the 500 PFD to select freq, baro, etc...? That's a really nice feature I've seen on the G3x.

[Max Clark]

On 8/23/2024 at 7:03 PM, hubcap said:

My approach was very similar the one taken by @Rick Junkin and @Pinecone 

I had a G500 but went with the G3X when I upgraded. I really believe that was a good choice. I went with a 650xi and GNX 375. Two GPS navigators and 1 nav. I chose the Garmin EIS to replace my JPI 900 which was necessary for panel space as I went with 2 of the 10” displays and a G5. The G3X has a great deal of functionality and I find the interface very intuitive and easy to learn.

I have posted pictures of my panel on Mooneyspace if you are interested. I did not feel the cost upgrade to go with the G275 over the G5 was worth it. 

I must be looking in the wrong place to find this - how did you fit 2x 10" G3x???

[Max Clark]

On 8/23/2024 at 8:42 PM, Marc_B said:

my $0.02 after going though this.  I had the legacy G500 and when I was having issues with my King AP, I upgraded to the GFC500.  Took that time to finish the panel the way I wanted it for the foreseeable future.  So my thoughts:

1) G500TXi is much better than the legacy and I feel there are a few format items, placement, and more similarity to the GTNs with the TXi vs the G3X.  I like the format of the AP scoreboard on the TXi better.  A little brighter screen.  But you'd be happy with either.  If you are going with a Big screen PFD and the GTNs, no need to cram more data into the standby.  So I chose the G5 standby.  For all the square screens, it seems to match better.  And personally I feel the GI275 was trying to put too much into a too small of hole.  Also the battery life of the G5 is much better which is what I'd be using the standby instrument for anyways.  When I did mine upgrade, the G5 was available immediately (275 backlog) and it was cheaper. 

2)  I started with an EI MVP-50 engine monitor, and I really like it and kept it with the upgrade.  EI is very easy to deal with when I upgraded the screen and when they had new probes that had better life and they switched them out with my current probes.  Personally I have gotten used to, and enjoy having, engine data separate from the PFD.  It is also super easy to button through the screens for all my data at the end of a flight and a USB jump drive to download all engine data.

3)  Agreed, the GTN750Xi is a great unit.  I have the GTN650Xi below it and think they work well together...but I do most of the work from the GTN750.  For me this is one more place to put traffic, default nav page for all my data, and if I had any issues with GTN750, they are clones of each other so same buttonology.  I like having two Nav/coms for IFR, and everything crossfills and talks between the GTNs.  So I can use the TXi or either GTN to send freqs to both.  So I routinely use wx/ground/clearance freqs on 2 and com1 use active airborne freqs.

3a) Not sure what you're doing with audio panel, but I have the GMA35 remote audio panel and it's all controlled from the GTN750.  I prefer it that way and really enjoy the Garmin Telligence, 3D audio (when on comm1 and monitoring comm2 then 1 comes out of left ear and 2 comes out of right ear in headphone), and it all seems pretty easy to use from the GTN.  If you're not sure, I'd see if you can demo/check out someone with a PS engineering audio panel and someone with the GMA35/35c.

4)  For me another screen on the right side just didn't make sense.  My "copilot" most of the time is watching a movie or reading.  Instead I have an Aera 760 yoke mount on the left yoke.  This is a super fast and easy way to control music, keep on traffic page around the airport, put on terrain (I like the terrain page of the 760 better than the terrain page on the panel...760 has a profile view with flight path projection like Foreflight as well as the overhead view with colors.  In my mind, a second PFD/MFD on the copilot side makes sense with a throw over yoke (i.e. some bonanzas) or with larger aircraft where you have your copilot flying the entire flight sometimes.  Personally I didn't feel it was a benefit for me.

Hindsight) about the only thing that I might have considered was having the transponder changed to a remote...but it's out of the way and I do actually use the buttons to turn off, on, alt, etc.  Its quicker for me to do this from the transponder when flying formation.  But putting squawk codes I do from the GTN. 

I really enjoy my panel, and the biggest part is whatever you do get plenty of training and make sure you understand the quirks, buttonology, and how to set it all up.  A solid instructor and an onsite Garmin course go a LONG way, but reading the pilot guides completely through several times is a must.

Beautiful panel thanks for sharing!

Seeing this I do really like the dedicated EIS - will have to see what Garmin updates before I start cutting

How do you like the GFC on top? Not to stir things up, I've seen these top of stack and bottom of stack and trying to get a sense of the difference.

[Danb]

14 minutes ago, Max Clark said:

You might not want to know...

Having an Acclaim I can’t change my avionics..  

[Danb]

4 minutes ago, Max Clark said:

Beautiful panel thanks for sharing!

Seeing this I do really like the dedicated EIS - will have to see what Garmin updates before I start cutting

How do you like the GFC on top? Not to stir things up, I've seen these top of stack and bottom of stack and trying to get a sense of the difference.

Max I met some friends of yours in Wilmington last week..

[Marc_B]

6 minutes ago, Max Clark said:

How do you like the GFC on top? Not to stir things up, I've seen these top of stack and bottom of stack and trying to get a sense of the difference.

My KFC AP was on the bottom, and my shop recommended up top with upgrade.  I can see utility either way and both are just as accessible.  You'll easily adapt to wherever you put it.  So I think the reason this is a "contentious" discussion is just because it's more personal preference of location than anything.

But for me, it's nice at the top as I can rest my fingers on the top of the bezel (it sticks out a little) or rest my hand on the glareshield coming up to a change.  And in my mind, the GMC507 controller is in the same line as the G5 and the TXi.  I like it up top and glad I put it there, but I never had a problem with my KFC on bottom either.

[Max Clark]

7 minutes ago, Danb said:

Max I met some friends of yours in Wilmington last week..

Lol great people and his RV-10 is awesome!

[201Mooniac]

1 hour ago, Max Clark said:

Do you have a dedicated 275 for EIS or do you use that as your standby as well?

I have 2 GI 275s, one as a standby ADI and one as an EIS.  I don't believe you can do standby and EIS in one unit per the STC.

[shawnd]

2 hours ago, 201Mooniac said:

I have 2 GI 275s, one as a standby ADI and one as an EIS.  I don't believe you can do standby and EIS in one unit per the STC.

That display setup looks like my planned setup. @201Mooniac curious if you think placing the EIS above the ADI might be a better way to go. 

[201Mooniac]

2 hours ago, shawnd said:

That display setup looks like my planned setup. @201Mooniac curious if you think placing the EIS above the ADI might be a better way to go. 

I thought about that and while it is likely better for routine flights, I was concerned with the heads down when I really needed it as a standby.  Given the very low incidence of that I probably chose wrong here but it isn't really hard to switch.  Given I also have the EIS display on my iPad with Garmin Pilot, I haven't really noticed any operational issues with it in its current location.

[Z W]

6 hours ago, Max Clark said:

The 750 has a lot of real estate, looks like a nice interface for management. With the 540 I have now, it's feels like it would fill most of the MFD functionality

Can you use the 500 PFD to select freq, baro, etc...? That's a really nice feature I've seen on the G3x.

Yes, you can set the baro on the G500TXi and I usually do.  I believe you can also control the frequencies on a GTN from the G500Txi, but not on a GNS or GNC.

[Marc_B]

37 minutes ago, Z W said:

Yes, you can set the baro on the G500TXi and I usually do.  I believe you can also control the frequencies on a GTN from the G500Txi

Can confirm with G500TXi and G5 that the baro syncs to the G5 when adjusted on the TXi, but for some reason doesn't go the other way...i.e. if I adjust on G5 then the baro doesn't change on the TXi and it highlights in yellow to tell you they don't match.

With remote radio control enabled, you can control GTN 1 & GTN 2 freqs from either GTN as well as the TXi.

[shawnd]

Just now, Marc_B said:

Can confirm with G500TXi and G5 that the baro syncs to the G5 when adjusted on the TXi, but for some reason doesn't go the other way...i.e. if I adjust on G5 then the baro doesn't change on the TXi and it highlights in yellow to tell you they don't match.

Yeah it's truly configured for a standby. Per STC.

Just now, Marc_B said:

With remote radio control enabled, you can control GTN 1 & GTN 2 freqs from either GTN as well as the TXi.

That's news! Is this similar to G3X where you can type in any frequency? Never saw this UI anywhere before. Or is it loading frequencies from the waypoint info UI?

[201Mooniac]

1 hour ago, Marc_B said:

With remote radio control enabled, you can control GTN 1 & GTN 2 freqs from either GTN as well as the TXi.

I've seen where you can control one GTN from the other but I haven't seen where you can control them from the Txi, I didn't see that listed in the new software, is it in the manual?

 

Actually just found it in Rev P of the TXi manual.  I missed this, very cool.

 

[shawnd]

Okay so this makes sense from the waypoint info page. 
 

Would be cool if it had a MFD option too for control! 

[Pinecone]

11 hours ago, Max Clark said:

I must be looking in the wrong place to find this - how did you fit 2x 10" G3x???

@hubcap did two 10" G3X in his 231.

I have one 10" on the left and a 7" portrait screen on the right side.

[Pinecone]

4 hours ago, Marc_B said:

Can confirm with G500TXi and G5 that the baro syncs to the G5 when adjusted on the TXi, but for some reason doesn't go the other way...i.e. if I adjust on G5 then the baro doesn't change on the TXi and it highlights in yellow to tell you they don't match.

With the G3X, adjusting the baro on the G5, it adjusts both my G3Xs.  In fact, since it is dedicated as baro, I always set it on the G-5.

[hubcap]

12 hours ago, Max Clark said:

I must be looking in the wrong place to find this - how did you fit 2x 10" G3x???

This is my panel with 2 of the 10” G3X’s

[hubcap]

25 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

With the G3X, adjusting the baro on the G5, it adjusts both my G3Xs.  In fact, since it is dedicated as baro, I always set it on the G-5.

Same for my setup. The G5 is the only place I set the altimeter and it adjusts the G3X’s.

[McMooney]

On 8/22/2024 at 9:51 AM, Max Clark said:

Current: M20R Ovation 2 DX mostly original. JPI EDM 730 was added replacing the 700, Avidyne 540/440 stack replaced the Garmin

Want: Large PFD & GFC 500 autopilot

Questions:

1. G500 TXi w/ 275 Standby or G3X w/ G5 Standby - I haven't figured out what the tradeoffs between these displays & standbys are
2. Integrated EIS or EDM 900/930 - hearing that Garmin's EIS isn't what you might hope for vs the EDM
3. GTN 750Xi seems like a no brainer - is it worth spending the $ on a GTN650Xi or step down to a GNC 215 or GTR 205
4. Should I even think about adding a 9" portrait mode MFD for the right seat

Really curious what you think is worth it, and what isn't. Don't want to waste money, but don't want to wish I did something different after the fact.

Thanks!

my thoughts, why would you even consider replacing the avidynes, they are really nice.  

275s, gotta admit it look really good but as i've decided to go g3x, it just made since to install g5s

[Max Clark]

9 hours ago, McMooney said:

my thoughts, why would you even consider replacing the avidynes, they are really nice.  

275s, gotta admit it look really good but as i've decided to go g3x, it just made since to install g5s

Because to keep the Avidyne everything becomes Frankenstein 

The panel is an integrated package working together

PFD, GPS Nav/Com, Autopilot

When I start reading about hacks and secret settings that will get the IFD to work with x, y, or z is when I’m out

[Max Clark]

10 hours ago, Pinecone said:

@hubcap did two 10" G3X in his 231.

I have one 10" on the left and a 7" portrait screen on the right side.

I was originally thinking about doing the 7” portrait but now kinda wondering if I should skip it altogether