Autopilot or Paint?

[William Munney]

Hello all.

I have a 1996 Mooney Ovation in great mechanical shape with a very nice Garmin glass panel (G500 TXi, GTN 750, GNS530),  a new interior and a factory new IO 550 which I have detailed here and there on Mooneyspace.  The paint is original and what you would expect for 28 years old.  Shiny but nothing special. The autopilot is the capable, but old, King KFC 150.  It is smooth and works flawlessly at this time.

I am getting the fuel tanks sealed this Winter and am considering new paint or the installation of the Garmin GFC 500 autopilot.  My question is….Which one is going to give me a better return on the money at resale time?  What would be your choice?

Thanks all.

Edited July 17, 2024 by William Munney

[Alan Maurer]

That is a tough question. Dazzling paint job with beautiful stripes gets attention but if you actually plan to keep the airplane , the Garmin autopilots are spot on.

It likely has more capability than the older King , but since  yours works perfectly You might want save all that money for avgas!

Alan

[hais]

What is driving your KFC150? Another consideration is whether you want to reduce the risk of gyro failure 

[William Munney]

57 minutes ago, hais said:

What is driving your KFC150? Another consideration is whether you want to reduce the risk of gyro failure 

I think it’s the G500TXi PFD.  I have no vacuum system remaining in the airplane.

[William Munney]

2 hours ago, Alan Maurer said:

That is a tough question. Dazzling paint job with beautiful stripes gets attention but if you actually plan to keep the airplane , the Garmin autopilots are spot on.

It likely has more capability than the older King , but since  yours works perfectly You might want save all that money for avgas!

Alan

No question the GFC is a better autopilot.  And, it integrates perfectly with the rest of the electronic flight instruments.

You are correct.  The current cost of installation of the GFC 500 and a GI 275 pays for years worth of AvGas.

Leaning towards paint.

[Z W]

I think I'd paint it, fly the KFC150 until a major component breaks, then replace the autopilot.

[William Munney]

2 hours ago, Z W said:

I think I'd paint it, fly the KFC150 until a major component breaks, then replace the autopilot.

That’s what I’m hearing at the airport too but assumes a very large airplane budget.

[PeterRus]

Does not sound like you need either, so neither -- save/invest the money.

[Andy95W]

5 minutes ago, PeterRus said:

Does not sound like you need either, so neither -- save/invest the money.

When it’s time, do the autopilot first.  Some brackets will need to be riveted to the airplane.  That’s sucks when it’s a brand new paint job.  Even if the rivets aren’t through the painted skin, it’s a lot of potential wear and tear.

Edited July 17, 2024 by Andy95W

[ArtVandelay]

When it’s time, do the autopilot first.  Some brackets will need to be riveted to the airplane.  That’s sucks when it’s a brand new paint job.  Even if the rivets aren’t through the painted skin, it’s a lot of potential wear and tear.

I asked my avionics shop this exact question, in my case (GFC500, J), there’s no external rivets.
I did the paint first, but only because the AP wasn’t certified yet.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

I asked my avionics shop this exact question, in my case (GFC500, J), there’s no external rivets.
I did the paint first, but only because the AP wasn’t certified yet.

How did they mount the tray for the elevator (and yaw if you have it) servos without rivets?

[ArtVandelay]

How did they mount the tray for the elevator (and yaw if you have it) servos without rivets?

I said no EXTERNAL rivets, it’s riveted to the stringers.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

I said no EXTERNAL rivets, it’s riveted to the stringers.

I looked at mine again because I remembered three new rivets on the centerline skin lap underneath the tailcone. But the Garmin tray is bolted to the stringers and the three rivets are just plugging holes which must be left over from the KAP 150 installation.

[hubcap]

I am a function over form guy, so I would replace the autopilot first.

[affricate]

19 hours ago, William Munney said:

Hello all.

I have a 1996 Mooney Ovation in great mechanical shape with a very nice Garmin glass panel (G500 TXi, GTN 750, GNS530),  a new interior and a factory new IO 550 which I have detailed here and there on Mooneyspace.  The paint is original and what you would expect for 28 years old.  Shiny but nothing special. The autopilot is the capable, but old, King KFC 150.  It is smooth and works flawlessly at this time.

I am getting the fuel tanks sealed this Winter and am considering new paint or the installation of the Garmin GFC 500 autopilot.  My question is….Which one is going to give me a better return on the money at resale time?  What would be your choice?

Thanks all.

Do nothing, fly it and save the money for you're next MOH,

[MikeOH]

I've got to agree with @affricate on this one!  You have, by your own post, shiny paint and a working A/P!  Save the money for when the plane demands it....trust me, you won't need to wait long

[LANCECASPER]

20 hours ago, William Munney said:

Hello all.

I have a 1996 Mooney Ovation in great mechanical shape with a very nice Garmin glass panel (G500 TXi, GTN 750, GNS530),  a new interior and a factory new IO 550 which I have detailed here and there on Mooneyspace.  The paint is original and what you would expect for 28 years old.  Shiny but nothing special. The autopilot is the capable, but old, King KFC 150.  It is smooth and works flawlessly at this time.

I am getting the fuel tanks sealed this Winter and am considering new paint or the installation of the Garmin GFC 500 autopilot.  My question is….Which one is going to give me a better return on the money at resale time?  What would be your choice?

Thanks all.

I would spend a few thousand on touchup and buffing and call it a day.

I wouldn't trade an autopilot that works flawlessly at this time for one that may or may not porpoise like some of the GFC500 installations do. Garmin will get it figured out eventually. The previous owner spent a lot of extra money on the G500 TXi (and probably the GAD43e) to work with the King Autopilot - I would give it some time before you tear the panel apart again.

[MikeOH]

My F was painted with Imron back in 1996 and still has shine.  Two days ago I spent a couple of hours buffing one wing with polishing compound and then hand applying carnuba wax and buffing.  I dare anyone to tell the difference between the result I got and fresh paint; it shines and glows!  Now, I just have to get up the motivation to polish, wax, and buff the rest of the plane!

[hais]

20 hours ago, William Munney said:

I think it’s the G500TXi PFD.  I have no vacuum system remaining in the airplane.

In that case, I also vote for keeping it until it breaks.

[Pinecone]

11 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

I would spend a few thousand on touchup and buffing and call it a day.

I wouldn't trade an autopilot that works flawlessly at this time for one that may or may not porpoise like some of the GFC500 installations do. Garmin will get it figured out eventually. The previous owner spent a lot of extra money on the G500 TXi (and probably the GAD43e) to work with the King Autopilot - I would give it some time before you tear the panel apart again.

Agree with buff (now called "paint correction") and maybe a ceramic coating and see what you get.  It can be a pretty amazing "upgrade."  Unless you are seeing metal color or the base color through the trim, you can probably be fine with working on it.

As for the AP, while I agree with you principle, the GFC-500 is so slick with a G500TXi or G3X and GTN Xi, I would seriously consider making that move.

[M20F]

On 7/17/2024 at 1:25 AM, William Munney said:

I am getting the fuel tanks sealed this Winter

Why? 

[William Munney]

On 7/17/2024 at 7:45 PM, affricate said:

Do nothing, fly it and save the money for you're next MOH,

I just put in a factory new IO550.  So, good there for 2200 hours.

[William Munney]

On 7/18/2024 at 10:55 AM, M20F said:

Why? 

The fuel tanks are starting to leak.  So, taking care of them now all at once.

[MikeOH]

12 minutes ago, William Munney said:

The fuel tanks are starting to leak.  So, taking care of them now all at once.

Leak? Or, seep, or weep?  (See MM definitions).  I've had a couple of weeps over the past 7 years; easily patched for very minimal dollars.  Way preferable to $16,000 and downtime.  Just something to consider.

[William Munney]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.  I honestly flip flop every few days on this.  I bought the airplane last Fall and have redone just about everything else over the long midwestern winter.  I’m just flying it now with my son.  Just finished engine break in.   I have almost 20 hours into the original paint with a buffer and applied a ceramic coating.  It’s nice from  10 yards away and could really use a few more hours on the “Claret” colored paint as it oxidizes quickly if not maintained…….which it wasn’t.  However:

Interior….new (DIY), all leather and wool carpet.

Firewall Forward….factory new IO550, prop overhaul, governor overhaul, and every hose and clamp and fastener.  And fuel boost pump.  I even had the fiberglass air intake assembly rebuilt.

New tires and tubes.

Total LED light conversion.  ( And interior glareshield/ panel lighting)

New batteries

New O2 bottle.

It’s a little like redoing your kitchen in the house.  Makes everything else look like it needs attention.  The KFC-150 does a very nice job.  No current problems.  It just doesn’t take advantage of all the Garmin functionality I have available in the panel.

Today, I am leaning towards paint vs autopilot…..maybe even a few more hours on that buffer.  Ha ha

Also, special thanks and high recommendation to Jason Doscher at JED-AIRE Aviation in Benson, MN.  (KBBB). His skill and guidance were invaluable in this project.  Look him up.  Call him.  Drop in for decades of Mooney experience and honest work.

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2024 by William Munney