High altitude, non-turbo flight

[Hank]

52 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

I think you’ll find very little loss of simple mental tasks and you probably won’t notice a lack of judgment.  You likely won’t have significant hypoxia like people talk about in the altitude chamber if you’re just cruising at 10-12k even though there’s likely some degradation there.  You’ll really need to use a pulseox repeatedly to see the dip.  What you’re most likely to notice is the change in fatigue after (or even during) a flight. Those yawns you mention?  Sure you’re not tired?  How do you feel in the evening after a long flight, maybe a little tired?  O2 makes a huge difference there.

I used to feel.bad after long flights above 7500 msl. Then I switched from a clamp-o-matic headset to a QT Halo in-ear headset, and it all cleared up. Guess it wasn't low oxygen after all . . . . Been that way for over 10 years now. Just flew almost 7 hours a couple of Saturdays ago, and 3.5 last Saturday at 8500. No issues.

[Ragsf15e]

9 minutes ago, Hank said:

I used to feel.bad after long flights above 7500 msl. Then I switched from a clamp-o-matic headset to a QT Halo in-ear headset, and it all cleared up. Guess it wasn't low oxygen after all . . . . Been that way for over 10 years now. Just flew almost 7 hours a couple of Saturdays ago, and 3.5 last Saturday at 8500. No issues.

Do you use a pulse ox just to see?

[Hank]

29 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Do you use a pulse ox just to see?

It spends most of its time on the back seat. Need to remember to use it sometime. Didn't have one back in the headclamping days.

[LANCECASPER]

4 hours ago, rturbett said:

I took a deep breath before climbing to altitude... or I was hypoxic and couldn't read it correctly!  If I recall correctly, my instructor was at 94%  

I also did some repetitive mental tasks to "judge myself" along the way...

For my normal flying- which is still being determined - I'm usually below 9k

 

Taking one deep breath could have kept your SpO2 high for a couple minutes, but not long. 

There are a lot of areas where self-examination is a good idea. Judging your own mental acuity is not one of them - you are using your own mental acuity to judge your mental acuity, what if it's off? Thinking that it's not, without the need of an outside objective opinion,  is an indication that it is.

[Pinecone]

2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

There are a lot of areas where self-examination is a good idea. Judging your own mental acuity is not one of them - you are using your own mental acuity to judge your mental acuity, what if it's off? Thinking that it's not, without the need of an outside objective opinion,  is an indication that it is.

Like people drinking.

 

[wombat]

I get sleepy when hypoxic.   Didn't know that was one of my major symptoms until I I did the altitude chamber.  Now I do and if I get sleepy in the plane, the first thing I do is check my oxygen level.

[Ibra]

Worth going with somone on O2 and removing own O2 to see personalised symptoms and reactions, I did this with someone in his Bravo: up and down between 8kft-22kft on various profiles (auto-pilot, hand-flying, cruise...) 

It's interesting that he was +25 years older, heavy smoker, lived his whole life in flat land, yet he coped very well

I would not trust my abilities to notice hypoxia alone without O2 alarm or someone else nearby to lose it first or to weak me up 

Edited May 20 by Ibra

[dkkim73]

I just received my Wellue pulse-ox ring. In the first 20 minutes, very impressed. Seems to maintain a signal and report well. Have trialed some other options. Have been waiting for this, and some test flights with my current "baseline" oxygen rig, before I venture into mask altitudes. A simply finger backup is also good. 

I would respectfully recommend *not* relying entirely on subjective criteria. 

D

ETA: and yes, take opportunities for physio (chamber) flights to experience symptoms, or ROBD (reduced-oxygen breathing devices) if you can't get to a chamber. And remember to allow for changes in age and your physiologic "journey" as well. 

[rturbett]

9 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Taking one deep breath could have kept your SpO2 high for a couple minutes, but not long. 

There are a lot of areas where self-examination is a good idea. Judging your own mental acuity is not one of them - you are using your own mental acuity to judge your mental acuity, what if it's off? Thinking that it's not, without the need of an outside objective opinion,  is an indication that it is.

Couldn't find the smiley emoji to let you know I was joking on the deep breath.  Had a good conversation through the flight with a very experienced instructor talking about expectations.   I will be getting oxygen in the future, and likely before I try anything like this on my own. 

[McMooney]

12 hours ago, Hank said:

I used to feel.bad after long flights above 7500 msl. Then I switched from a clamp-o-matic headset to a QT Halo in-ear headset, and it all cleared up. Guess it wasn't low oxygen after all . . . . Been that way for over 10 years now. Just flew almost 7 hours a couple of Saturdays ago, and 3.5 last Saturday at 8500. No issues.

I notice i feel, "off", after flying for extended periods at  > 8k ish.  watching the pulse ox, i never go below 90/92 ish and it really only takes a few deep breaths to bring it back up.   started taking a puff or two of ox every now and again, just to avoid that bleh feeling

[Shadrach]

8 hours ago, McMooney said:

I notice i feel, "off", after flying for extended periods at  > 8k ish.  watching the pulse ox, i never go below 90/92 ish and it really only takes a few deep breaths to bring it back up.   started taking a puff or two of ox every now and again, just to avoid that bleh feeling

I wonder if it’s not a combination of things. 
As a flat lander (I live at 524msl) who occasionally travels to high altitude destinations and spends several days above 8000’ doing strenuous activity with no acclimation, its hard for me to get my head around someone feeling “off” over 4 or 5 hours sitting at >8k. Do you feel off after sitting in an airline cabin pressured to 9 K?

I suspect that most GA pilots are moderately dehydrated after an extended flight. None of us want to deal with peeing in the plane, so we avoid hydrating in flight.

 

 

[Steve Dawson]

If you have a pulse oximeter try breathing in through your nose and exhaling through your mouth however purse your lips to restrict exhaling. This should help a little with O2 intake. This increases pressure on the membrane in your lungs to push O2 into your bloodstream. It works well if you're on a cannula. (Doctors feel free to correct) 

I've noticed as much as 6% O2 intake 

[Fly Boomer]

11 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

I just received my Wellue pulse-ox ring. In the first 20 minutes, very impressed. Seems to maintain a signal and report well.

Let us know your experiences as you begin to use this thing at altitude.  I have been eyeballing the Wellue for a while, and I need a little push to open my wallet (again).

[dkkim73]

3 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Let us know your experiences as you begin to use this thing at altitude.  I have been eyeballing the Wellue for a while, and I need a little push to open my wallet (again).

Will do. I'm also going to wear it around a bit, and probably overnight, to see what kind of gaps or vulnerabilities it might have. 

Have been waiting for a good wearable before going higher than 17k. I'll probably try popping a bit higher on the Eastbound leg of my next commute. 

ETA: the auto on/off when you wear it or take it off is surprisingly helpful. 

[dkkim73]

4 hours ago, Steve Dawson said:

If you have a pulse oximeter try breathing in through your nose and exhaling through your mouth however purse your lips to restrict exhaling. This should help a little with O2 intake. This increases pressure on the membrane in your lungs to push O2 into your bloodstream. It works well if you're on a cannula. (Doctors feel free to correct) 

I've noticed as much as 6% O2 intake 

That maneuver *definitely* works. A significant mechanism is increased "recruitment" of the alveoli, the little air sacs where "the magic (of gas exchange) happens". They are collapsed but open up when you pressure-breathe yourself as above, and when you breath more deeply, particularly at the lung bases. Unsure how much the absolute pressure increase helps in terms of partial pressure driving gas exchange (given the limited pressures we can generate with our chest esp. during inspiration, would have to look it up) but it certainly doesn't hurt. 

I have used the above to "get by" in terms of avoiding mild hypoxia at bordlerline altitudes when we brought the wrong cannulas on a demo flight. 

A pressure-demand or other positive pressure system helps with the above by delivering external boost. E.g. the common narrow panel military regulators. 

Another important practical physio point to digest: as you climb, the partial pressure of CO2 decreases along with O2, and the lesser absolute value of CO2 will decrease respiratory drive. So you just won't breath as often. So a very basic thing to do is remember to breath more regularly than you feel compelled to, and a bit more deeply. 

If you do both of the above, you can boost your effective oxygenation by a surprising amount at middling altitudes. 

HTH